Source for the blurb: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces This is one of the first sources that pop up if you do a search for “How long is coronavirus viable on surfaces?” I had looked this up weeks ago in order to give advice to my family on handling various deliveries, mail, etc., which is why I knew right away that the numbers datura used were wrong.
A fomite is indeed an inanimate object. Datura has confused the virus with the fomite: “Fomites survive a long time on many surfaces. By touching a surface where a fomite has landed,...” Fomites don’t survive or land on surfaces; the surface IS the fomite.
Datura used incorrect information about the lengths of detectability and substituted “survivable” for “detectable”. Also, no one familiar with Lancet would ever call it ‘Lancelet’ and I doubt that’s spellcheck.
What will help all of us, including (misguided?) Missouri Gal, is fact, not more misguidance. She isn’t wrong about the masks. If you don’t cough, there is no evidence that speaking will transmit virus to someone who should be maintaining 6ft social distancing. That said, I don’t object to asymptomatic people wearing masks to protect others in case of an unexpected cough or sneeze. It’s a benign action that is low risk except in young children and some respiratory patients, and may stop some inadvertent spread.
I also try to stay off of these threads, but when someone posts so much misinformation which could cause others to be even more panicked, and then berates another person to ‘do actual research’, I couldn’t help myself.
Love,
O2
First . Missouri Girl is the one feeding the hysteria. Did she REALLY say flushing the toilet may explain the spread of COVID in households? I'll believe that when I read it in something other than mainstream media. (note to self: check Amazon for the availability of an outhouse or a camping bucket.../s)
Second I'll give you that the fomite is the surface, not the virus itself. I read the NIH article you referenced (thank you for that, btw!). The point of the NIH article is that fomite transmission is possible and is occurring, contrary to what Missouri Girl said in her post #8 about it being "pretty hard for that route to be successful." If that was true, why would hospitals need to clean rooms between patients, COVID or otherwise? Healthcare workers' hands are the single biggest mode of transmission of illness in hospitals and other settings where one person is caring for more than one person.
Interestingly, the NIH article discredits Missouri Girl's statements better than I ever could. Just as an aside, there is not consensus about exact times: the CDC says nothing more specific than "hours to days depending on the surface and the cleaning agent used."
Third. I think Datura's point about Lancet was to use peer-reviewed, scientific sources. Whether Datura is familiar with Lancet or not is basically irrelevant...How many here are intimately familiar with the New England Journal of Medicine? Yet how many would doubt its value as a reliable source? The premise of considering the source that you get your information from is what matters.
Fourth COVID is not spread just by coughing. Hundreds of thousands of epidemiologists and other healthcare workers in the US (myself included) would vehemently disagree with that idea. It is spread by ANYTHING that causes a forcible expulsion of respiratory matter: sneezing, loud singing, yelling, heavy breathing (such as after vigorous exercise or during an asthma attack), medical procedures like intubation, and remains suspended in the air for indeterminate # of hours after a cough/sneeze/etc occurs. Hence negative pressure rooms in hospitals. Take a look at some of the things respiratory therapists and ICU's are doing to protect themselves (intubation hoods, etc) during these kinds of medical procedures. I don't have time right now to find the original source video, but you may find this interesting. It is from the private group COVID -19 for healthcare workers FB page (I hope the link works): https://www.facebook.com/aaron.yanez.334/videos/2685240355020686/UzpfSTEwMDAwNjg0NjcwOTM2NDpWSzoyMTEwNzc3NjY4NTA4NTA/
Fifth MG is inaccurate to say that the virus needs entry into the lungs. While it is true that the lungs are a portal of entry, it has not been established yet that lungs are the ONLY portal of entry. It is known that it has not been found in breast milk or sexual fluids, but studies on other modes of infection are underway right now. One such study is about healthcare workers who had needlestick injuries with COVID patients since COVID is found in blood. Another is about mother-to-baby transmission in utero.
Think about it...why would washing one's hands matter if entry into the lungs was the only mode of infection? My hands haven't entered my lungs recently, a statement I think many Americans can say with reasonable certainty. If merely moving my hands liberates virus that may be on my hands, then she (and you) are even more wrong about not needing a mask unless you are around people who are coughing.
Last Using whether or not someone is symptomatic or coughing as a basis for how one decides to protect oneself is risky at best. (but to each his own...) MissouriGal's comment in post #6 about masks not being necessary if they don't have a cough is, IMO, not just wrong but also irresponsible. Asymptomatic transmission has occurred as often if not more so than symptomatic transmission, as has fomite transmission.
As an Infectious Diseases healthcare professional, it's very difficult for me to read posts like MMG's and others from "internet experts". I support Datura for pointing out the fallacies in MG's posts, just as I support your comments about inaccuracies in Datura's post. I just think MMG's posts had blatantly wrong information that could put others in harm's way if they took her info to heart. Datura's post had inaccuracies that do not change the overall message in the post: that MMG's statements are inaccurate.
There is a lot of information, misinformation, and disinformation out there, and each of us must decide, based on sources we trust, what is right for us and ours. I feel like in your heart your intentions are good. I think we're going to have to just agree to disagree on this one, dearest O2.
Love,
Starfish