Posted on 03/02/2020 7:17:31 PM PST by Altura Ct.
What consent did the slaves give to their being enslaved exactly ? Why weren’t they included in Mr. Jefferson’s vision for America ?
I believe the casually damning quote you are seeking, erroneously attributed to Thomas Jefferson, is this:
“There is much controversy about the delivering up of fugitives from service or labor. The clause I now read is as plainly written in the Constitution as any other of its provisions:
“No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.
“It is scarcely questioned that this provision was intended by those who made it for the reclaiming of what we call fugitive slaves; and the intention of the lawgiver is the law. All members of Congress swear their support to the whole Constitution—to this provision as much as to any other. To the proposition, then, that slaves whose cases come within the terms of this clause “shall be delivered up” their oaths are unanimous. Now, if they would make the effort in good temper, could they not with nearly equal unanimity frame and pass a law by means of which to keep good that unanimous oath?”
For two-thirds of the population anyway.
Alas, as I cited on that other thread, he wouldn't and couldn't do this because it would've meant giving up that certain privilege of slaveowners.
We know from the headline that comrades in Charlottesville won't be celebrating Jefferson's birthday.
And we know comrade Bernie will not be celebrating Jefferson's birthday.
And we know comrade Beto will not be celebrating Jefferson's birthday.
And we know you will not be celebrating Jefferson's birthday.
Mr. Jefferson has more in common with these communist pigs in Charlottesville... “Some animals are more equal than others.”
Like I said, your indifference to his refusal to end slavery is noted.
You do know that he attempted to insert a section in the DoI condemning slavery and blaming(rightfully) the British for it?
Attempting and doing are two different things. He couldn’t give up slavery any more than he could give up his mistress.
“Mr. Jefferson has more in common with these communist pigs in Charlottesville...” - fieldmarshaldj
Think about that.
We know Communists do not believe in equality, despite claims to the contrary. Mr. Jefferson wrote many words on the subject of equality, but when it came to “action”, this did not extend to slaves. I indict him on high hypocrisy, just as I similarly indict all those of the leftist “faith.”
Think about that.
Inevitable after the disaster at Appomattox.
The “disaster at Appomattox” was nothing more than a final scene in the last act of the Confederacy.
It was beyond the power of the Confederacy, General Lee, or Jefferson Davis to alter the outcome.
And what of George Washington, James Madison, George Mason - communists pigs also?
And what of the seventy percent of the signers of the Declaration of Independence - communists pigs also?
And what of the victors of the War Between the States who settled into using their power to enforce de jure and de facto racial segregation in the South and de facto and de jure racial segregation in the North - communists pigs also?
And what of the segregated U.S. Armed forces that stormed ashore on D-Day . . .
I will continue to work with you until you blurt out: the election of Barack Obama was the first time you were proud of this country.
“It was beyond the power of the Confederacy, General Lee, or Jefferson Davis to alter the outcome.”
Inevitable you might say.
Hell must have frozen over because I’m actually agreeing with you on this one. The founding fathers didn’t create slavery, they found it here. You can’t blame the founders for slavery.
They attempted to get rid of it at the constitutional convention but were unable to because of the opposition of a few states.(you know which ones) They decided having all the states United was more important then a getting rid of slavery, and I agree with them.
They also created a constitution that allowed the states the right to end slavery, which they did. That makes us one of the first countries to get rid of slavery. I am proud of this fact.
Prior to our Declaration of Independence rebellion against the King was considered immoral because his authority was derived from God.(divine right of Kings) We proclaimed that governments are instituted among men by their consent(though a government after being instituted by men cannot be destroyed by a subset of those men but by all who created it). I am proud of this fact.
I am proud that America fought a war to insure our republican form of government continued, and in fighting that war we freed 4.5 million of our fellow Americans.
I am proud that we deafened Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
I am proud that we got rid of Jim Crow and now treat all our citizens equally.
Has my country done things I’m not proud of? sure. As has every other country in the world. However, I truly believe if you weigh the good and the bad that this country has done the good outweighs the bad.
fieldmarshaldj you sound like one of the liberals who started the whole 1619 nonsense and claim America is rotten from its beginning. I vehemently reject such a characterization of this great country. No country, as no man, is perfect, but I’ll take America over most of the other communities that man has ever lived in.
I agree with you there. I think the only chance the rebels had to win was to immediately march on D.C. and capture the President and any other official still there. Even then America might have continued the war. Because of the rebels support of slavery there wasn’t a snowballs chance in hell of Britain coming in on their side. And no other country was going to do anything until Britain did.
It’s ironic that the leader of the rebels had the best experience and training to lead a rebellion. His opponent lacked his depth and training yet outmaneuvered him at every turn. Almost as if he had divine help.
By late 1864, yes, inevitable. In the summer of 1861, not so much.
“By late 1864, yes, inevitable. In the summer of 1861, not so much.”
You and I are starting to agree.
That scares me.
shouldn’t, nothing wrong with agreeing on some issues. Some issues we probably will never agree on, but that is how a person learns things.
Your chronic habit of twisting not only my words, but outright ignoring them altogether, is quite worthy of a left-winger who cannot win an argument.
I’m afraid Mr. Jefferson’s namesake here has taken, once again, to twisting and perverting my remarks beyond comprehension.
My comments above were explicitly directed at Mr. Jefferson (the President, not the poster) and his noteworthy hypocrisies, reiterating what I said in that other thread.
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