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To: monkeyshine
-- Pelosi is using the Senate rules against the Senate. Because the rules say they won't hold a trial until the managers are appointed and the articles filed, they allow Pelosi and the Democrats to hog the spotlight and control the narrative. --

In my view, it isn't senate rules that cause this. That the tribunal waits for cases to be brought to it is axiomatic. Courts don't go looking for plaintiffs or defendants. Courts are open in case a plaintiff or defendant wants to avail of court process.

Senate is open in case house wants to avail of senate impeachment trial process.

The house does not lose control of its case. It is allowed to present it with full vigor. What it can't control is the outcome in court. The house knows the general lay of the senate process, just like plaintiffs know the general lay of civil procedure, and defendant lawyers know criminal procedure.

Ultimately, all this plays to the public. Pelosi has the hot potatoe. Can she handle it? It's all hers, coupled with all the 1st amendment speech coming her way.

She's stuck with the senate she has. Of course she is going to call it corrupt. The institutions are broken. Maybe changing the players will make them better.

67 posted on 12/20/2019 4:02:20 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt; mrs smith

I don’t disagree with what you wrote.

However, I do think Pelosi is using the Senate rules to her advantage for the reasons you (and mrssmith) spelled out. The Senate won’t take it up until it is formally submitted.

And that is Pelosi’s only advantage. It allows her to drag this out, to do a “rolling impeachment”, it allows her and Schumer to call out McConnell and the Senate, it lets her and the Democrats keep the spotlight and the narrative, and it allows the Democrats to interfere with the 2020 election by putting a new cloud over the Trump presidency.

My thinking is, they think they won the House in 2018 because the Mueller Russia Hoax was a cloud over Trump. So they concocted this Ukraine Hoax and impeachment for the same purposes.

It is only because of the existing rules that she can get away with dragging it out. (And who knows, maybe other political pressures will force her to move). It may be bad precedent to change the rules (though, they have been changed before, and they can be changed again) and I surely understand McConnell’s reluctance to do much. But doing nothing gives Pelosi more power than she deserves.

Of course they can and will vigorously prosecute the case, to the extent they are able. And I don’t argue they manipulate the procedures of the trial. But they do have the Sole Power over the rules and that is where Pelosi is currently playing, and where McConnell can act to take it away from her.


77 posted on 12/20/2019 4:14:04 PM PST by monkeyshine (live and let live is dead)
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To: Cboldt; Hostage
Courts are open in case a plaintiff or defendant wants to avail of court process. Senate is open in case house wants to avail of senate impeachment trial process.

Both of you are making excellent points; great contributions to the best resource on the net.

My only quibble is that I believe existing Senate rules stipulate that the chamber must take up impeachment when given notice by the House. So, in that regard the Senate is very different than normal criminal/civil court processes. That is, the 3rd branch has well developed systems & procedures in place to handle preliminary steps, scheduling, delays, appeals, etc.

If my understanding is correct, then under existing Senate rules, the Senate is at mercy to the whims of the House. That doesn't sound very reasonable or in character whatsoever for the Senate - especially if they are bound to cease regular business in order to try the impeachment.

I think the proposal floating around to update the Senate rules in order to force a timely issuance by the House would head off further potential abuses. No one thought it was necessary before, but that shipped has sailed now that the House has destroyed 230 years of precedent by passing a resolution to impeach based on purely political motives.

101 posted on 12/20/2019 5:31:33 PM PST by semantic
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