Utah banning ‘conversion therapy’ with Mormon church backing

Idaho State Journal ^ | 11/30/2019 | IdahoStateJournal

[fproy2222]

I will if you will

[fproy2222]

“How about that oral sex thing?”

It is degrading for the woman.
Like boy on boy sex, this kind of sex can be mistaught so even woman hide the degradation; even looking like they embrace it.

We do not want to degrade our wives.
We want co-equal partners to live the after life with as husband and wife.

[fproy2222]

“OCD #1”

Sounds like you do not believe God wants you to be your best.

[fproy2222]

“The Mormons wimped out and no longer OBEYED the command that GOD gave them.”

You seem to have a lack of knowledge about the change.
In the back of the D&C is the Manifesto. You will learn why you have not yet learned.

[Elsie]

It is degrading for the woman.

Giving?
Receiving??
Both???

[Elsie]

In the back of the D&C is the Manifesto. You will learn why you have not yet learned.

Then post it; so we ALL can learn something.

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In the meantime while we await your teaching; we can read for ourselves what the church decided to do...

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  OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

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President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

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EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done.

I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this:

I should have let all the temples go out of our hands;

I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what

I did do; and when the hour came that

I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me.

I went before the Lord, and

I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

 

 

 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

 

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

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What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???

 

compared to...

 

 

 

 

Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 

 

or compared to...

 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.

 

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So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

 

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

 

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Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 

[fproy2222]

All of the above.

Do you agree?

[Elsie]

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

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We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. -- Acticle of Faith #3

 

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The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501 - 7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

.

.

.

58 - 66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

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58 Now, as touching the law of the ^apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was ^aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that ^bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ^ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit ^dsin, and I will justify him.

60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood: "if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse ^aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ^aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to ^amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be ^bglorified.

64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take ^aHagar to wife.

66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

 

 

[fproy2222]

“What kind of ‘Leadership’ is THIS???

compared to...”

You have compared the loss of the ability for God’s church to function to the ability of individuals to function.

God told PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF to set aside the practice of polygamy for a while.

A Prophet who follows revaluation from God our Father in heaven is the kind of leadership we have.

[Elsie]

Do you agree?

Whether I agree or not is immaterial; isn't it?

What does your LDS SCRIPTURE say about the matter?

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What I DO agree about is that if something is TABOO; that is a SURE way to get MORE of it!

[Elsie]

God told PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF to set aside the practice of polygamy for a while.

This assertion is UNSUPPORTED by any evidence.

[Elsie]

You have compared the loss of the ability for God’s church to function to the ability of individuals to function.

I have only 'compared' what your chosen religion's SCRIPTURE says to what your chosen religion now PRACTICES.

The discrepancy is for SLC to resolve; not me.

[Elsie]

A Prophet who follows revaluation from God our Father in heaven is the kind of leadership we have.

Oh?

What you 'have' is a very CHANGEABLE god!

[21twelve]

Bumping myself to your thread - and to you. I am at the point where whenever I speak of therapists or doctors I refer to most of them as “experts”. Glad that there are some like you out there - thank you!

I am on the search for any studies that the “Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria” (ROGD) which often occurs in clusters at schools, among friends, etc. might be more than a social contagion - but an actual virus or biological contagion.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that many researchers believe/proven that strep throat can cause rapid onset OCD! (PANDAS). Many transgenders were previously diagnosed with OCD, and that probably plays some role in their gender dysphoria.

But what if, like OCD, gender dysphoria can be caused by a physical illness? (And then perhaps treated!!!????)

[Elsie]

 The Manifesto was canonized in the LDS Church standard works as Official Declaration 1^[3][4] and is considered by mainstream Mormons to have been prompted by divine revelation (although not a revelation itself), in which Woodruff was shown that the church would be thrown into turmoil if they did not comply with it.^[5] Some Mormon fundamentalists dispute that Woodruff received any such revelation.^{[citation needed]}

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1890_Manifesto}

 

 

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^{There seems to be a bit of confusion about the 'manifesto' among the faithful.}

 

^{What IS clear from the actual text of it, is that WW did NOT claim that GOD told him to stop what GOD told JS to start.}

 

 

[21twelve]

Somewhere I read an interesting article about how the Judeo/Christian religion transformed the idea of sex into being a mutual relationship between a man and a woman.

The article spent a lot of time saying how the pagans, Romans, etc. viewed sex only as the one penetrating and the one receiving. So gay sex, sex with objects (”Some guys - only having “sex” with a shoe will satisfy them”), meaningless sex, it was all fine.

Similar to “armpit sex” I suppose.

[fproy2222]

That is how you get Protestants.

[Elsie]

Now we'll get into the discussion area of Cosmo:

Shaving - Sensuous or not?

What to do about stubble??

Will using Secret© KEEP it 'secret'???

[Elsie]

That is how you get Protestants.

Cute; but since we were here first; to be truthful; it's how you get FUNDAMENTALIST Mormons!

[fproy2222]

“What IS clear from the actual text of it, is that WW did NOT claim that GOD told him to stop what GOD told JS to start.”

(The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice.)
Then God turned authority and responsibility over to us, while keeping veto power.
Just part of the training.