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To: semantic

“IMO, most people understand the present domestic threat is as real and unforgiving as what the Nazis, imperial Japanese and Soviets posed in their day.”


I agree with the substance, but disagree that most people understand this. Everyone but knowledgeable gun owners and 2A advocates is talking AGAIN about compromise. When you show someone (who is actually willing to listen and think) in black and white the history of “compromise,” then they understand that there can be no more of that - because it is just abject surrender, with the only variable being how quickly it is arranged.

“Rather than (individual) gun control, the discussion should be focused on federal/state/agency gun “balance”. That is, either their capabilities should be subject to ‘control’, or citizen access to military grade weapons - consistent with the original meaning of the 2A - should be expanded.”


Agreed, especially the last part.

“The 1934 NFA is the act that could really be subject to close scrutiny. Any informed reading of the law today would lead many to conclude it’s unconstitutional.”


The NFA IS unconstitutional - but we just haven’t had people who were both informed enough and honest enough to read the 2nd Amendment in the way that the Founders meant it to be interpreted. “US v. Miller” in 1939 was a complete disaster from not only the gun rights POV, but also from the POV of objective legal analysis. That case was, IMHO, a set up from the very beginning. Here’s a good analysis of the case, which includes all of the filings and rulings: http://rkba.org/research/miller/miller.html

To me, looking at the Founders’ statements about “arms,” it is utterly plain that they were talking about ALL types of arms - not just muskets, handguns or even Kentucky rifles. People like John Hancock owned dozens of cannon (the WMD of the day), and were authorized with Letters of Marque and Reprisal to attack the Brits by the Continental Congress (and that very thing led to the power of Congress to grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal in Article 1, Section 8 (and those were issued by the hundreds during the War of 1812).

It is absolutely anathema to the idea of what our Republic is supposed to be - a protector of the individual rights of its citizens, a necessary evil - that the federal government, with not only its outward-facing standing army, but with its inward-facing security services (i.e. a standing army, but one looking at and controlling US) can and does have full autos by the freight car load, and we cannot. The NFA was, ironically, argued to be Constitutional by the feds because it only levied a tax, rather than prohibiting ownership of full autos (and, of course, destructive devices, suppressors and everything else regulated by the NFA) - yet the 1986 FOPA prohibits any civilian from acquiring any full auto manufactured post-5/19/86. So they defeated their own argument.

I relish the idea of the NFA going to the Supremes, but I’d like to have 2 more solid Constitutionalists on the Court first. If Breyer and Ginsberg resign or die, we’ve got the first half of that equation, and it looks likely that at least one of them won’t be on the Court in the next 2-3 years (and, of course, this assumes that Trump wins, which I believe that he will). The NFA and most gun control is so incredibly far from the Founders’ ideas about the relationship between the citizens and the government that we created for OUR benefit, that it needs to be struck down.

Assuming that such occurs (a big assumption, I know), I would think that within 2 years there would be about 5 million full autos - either newly produced, or converted with a “happy switch.” At that point, there would simply be nothing that our government could EVER do to impose a dictatorship.


29 posted on 09/18/2019 1:02:17 PM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt, The Weapons Shops of Isher)
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To: Ancesthntr
I agree with everything you wrote. In the final analysis, across a very broad historical arc, the balance between citizens and government is one of cycles. Nothing lasts forever - not a democratic republic, but neither a centralized tyranny.

In many respects, Hussein might have represented the furthest reach of the progs. Consider that while patriots cannot mount (yet) an attack on the respective agencies, neither can the federal and/or state governments launch actions against the citizenry.

While the state apparatus certainly controls the cities and main lines of commerce/communications, any foray outside of those protected citadels would be met with resistance. If we assume that the feds/states could mount a force of say, 3m, then only 3% of the 100m patriots would have to commit to a 1:1 sacrifice to destroy that action.

That's why there's this stand-off; both sides can do the calculus. The politicians jaw away, while all the time knowing it's just talk. However, so too patriots who talk about marching on DC. Neither is going to happen, but as time moves on, the advantage continues to build on the side of independence.

We get 1-2 more constitutionalists, and the 100 year reign of terror by the left comes to an end.

31 posted on 09/18/2019 1:32:54 PM PDT by semantic
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