The Legacy of Violence at the Manhattan Jail Known as the 'Tombs'

Vice ^ | July 19, 2015 | Joihn Surico

[4Runner]

For Glenn Martin, founder of JustLeadership USA, a prison reform group, all that came to a head in 1995, when he was detained in the Tombs for almost three months before moving to Rikers. Back then, he said, the violence was coming not only from the inmates, but also the officers tasked with maintaining law and order. While not as hellish as Rikers, where US Attorney Preet Bharara last year found a "culture of violence," the Tombs of the mid 90s was a dangerous place.

Martin described the environment as a "microcosm of society, but very perverse." White inmates would be favored for maintenance jobs over black inmates like himself. A competition of alpha masculinity, he said, existed between inmates and male guards determined to impress female COs. If an inmate openly flirted too much, he'd pay for it later on with a beating. Female COs would lead on inmates, and if a fight broke out that didn't involve or implicate any COs, guards would look the other way, former inmates said.

"I remember the officers creating an environment where, as long as you weren't embarrassing officers in front of [their] supervisors, that it was OK to get into a fight and hurt each other," Martin recalls. "As long as you cleaned up the mess afterward, and it didn't happen when the supervisors were coming by. Even the officers would let you know when their supervisors were coming by."

[4Runner]

A competition of alpha masculinity, he said, existed between inmates and male guards determined to impress female COs. Female COs would lead on inmates, and if a fight broke out that didn't involve or implicate any COs, guards would look the other way, former inmates said.

This blog posted in 2015. But maybe relevant to understanding the facility known as "The Tombs", where Jeffrey Epstein was being held prior to his death by unknown means. If Epstein was trying to mess with the female CO's (remember he was quoted as saying he needed three orgasms a day) this could have been an inside job by the male CO's in retaliation. He was a sex fiend. Farfetched? What do you think?

[thoughtomator]

Too far fetched given the certainty of extreme consequences. This wasn’t some random prisoner.

[CaptainK]

Sounds like any given episode of Oz

[jpl]

Epstein was not being held in the Tombs, which is a municipal jail. He was being held in the M.C.C., a federal facility run by the Bureau of Prisons.

[4Runner]

Him being anything but a random prisoner is exactly my point. One could easily see him attempting to arrange “things” behind bars the way he had them on the outside. His notoriety preceded him. Those kinds of minds think and behave that way. He was obsessed with sex and women. He could have been trying to “hit on” too many female CO’s and they in turn may have been intrigued because of his fame. Within that kind of “extremely masculinized” culture, those kinds of interactions could easily have been fatal to him. Read the article. It’s not farfetched at all.

[1Old Pro]

He was obsessed with sex and women. He could have been trying to “hit on” too many female CO’s and they in turn may have been intrigued because of his fame

Not unless they employ 16 year olds as guards.

[thoughtomator]

That culture is not even in accord with the hypothesis.

If it’s alpha culture then they know that very very big alphas are about to very much embarrass a whole bunch of people before their supervisors. They would instinctively know the situation was radioactive and play it by the book.

The threads to follow are whether the reports of the guards being put off duty are true, and if so who gave the order and why; and the when and how of the camera being disabled, as well as accounting for any movements in and out of the building at the time.

Also notable are those who cry the loudest that this must be a suicide and there can be no foul play involved, these are arguing for an interest and that interest is a subject of interest if you know what I mean.

[4Runner]

Thought it was all part of the Manhattan Detention Center.

My bad.

The Tombs isn't federal. And has a different street address than does the MCC facility.

[TallahasseeConservative]

The tombs isn’t MCC. The tombs is a lockup for NYPD. Epstein was held at MCC which is a federal detention center.

[MplsSteve]

I never had that kind of problem when I was at The Tom...wait, never mind.

[know.your.why]

Absolutely believable! I met a guy that was a prison CO somewhere in Southern California and he said that the biggest gang in prisons are the CO’s. So many of them are sadistic, liars, drug users. Before my divorce I had a son in law that was a CO at Monroe Correctional Complex https://www.doc.wa.gov/corrections/incarceration/prisons/mcc.htm

This guy just liked to beat people up...used to say that he wanted to be a cop so that he could harass the public and no joke he was a pathological liar. Not like ‘I once caught a fish thisss biiig’...this guy would make up scenarios, characters, acts, etc....for no other reason than to just BS you. Freakin weird man!

CO’s lie to cover eachothers asses whenever necessary and no one believes an inmate NO ONE! Sht....Snohomish county and Seattle cops literally get away with murder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mvLw2ksPz0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-2Fljk0gkM

[Mr Ramsbotham]

Absolutely believable! I met a guy that was a prison CO somewhere in Southern California and he said that the biggest gang in prisons are the CO’s. So many of them are sadistic, liars, drug users.

That's axiomatic. I mean, what sort of people look for such jobs, or are capable of sustaining them? It's like people who work in large abattoirs, where if you look for it you can always find instances of extreme cruelty toward the animals, no matter how many policies the owners have in place to prevent it. Average, normal people generally don't take such jobs.