Posted on 08/10/2019 9:10:41 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
After the horrible carnage of the last two weeks, we have seen some folks and some organizations who claim to be staunch defenders of the Constitution and Bill of Rights fold like a cheap suit. Sadly, I always suspected President Trump would fold on gun rights, and this is not his first example of that. But what really took me by surprise was when Congressman Dan Crenshaw came out in support of “red flag” laws. First, as with all legislation, gun control laws should never be motivated by emotion but rather should be based on logic. Humans do stupid things when they are emotional, and people claiming to respect the Bill of Rights while pushing “red flag” laws is really stupid.
Let me start by saying I absolutely understand the desire to keep guns away from truly violent or mentally deranged persons. None of us wants a nutjob to get a hold of a gun and go on a killing spree. Let me say that again, because those who push gun control constantly say we feel otherwise: NONE of us, no matter how fervently we support the Second Amendment, wants some whackjob to grab a gun and start killing people. That said, many of us are not willing to throw away the rights of millions of people who have done absolutely nothing wrong on the off chance that it could possibly prevent some crazy guy from committing a crime.
Ignoring, for just a few moments, all of the violations of the Bill of Rights that are involved with “red flag” laws, the entire restraining order system is horribly susceptible to abuse, and that is the same system that is employed in these “red flag” laws.
(Excerpt) Read more at 2anews.us ...
I will accept Red Flag laws as long as there are severe penalties for false accusations and the burden of proof lies with the accuser. Let’s see how that works.
“Red flag law” is just another way to say “no due process”.
> as long as there are severe penalties for false accusations and the burden of proof lies with the accuser.
If there aren’t, every leftist in the USA should be on that list in 24 hours from opening day.
The libtards are hoping to write “anonymous” into the law. If we get one of these Red Flags with anonymous reporting I am going to start reporting a libtard a day. Wear disguises to library computers, all sorts of things one can do and stay anonymous.
That doesn’t work. Such return suits are almost never filed because the accuser can’t be proven unafraid or undisturbed by the “loon”.
This is too dangerous a law to simply see how it works.
That’s how idiots fall for communism. Once the freedom is gone it’s too late.
How’s that repeal of commie care going?
There will not be any such penalties. But, even if there were the cost to get there would be ruinous for most people accused. What would a competent attorney cost to fight this in court? $400 - $500 per hour? Times maybe 10 hours of work. Plus court costs. You would be looking at 5 grand just to be heard. Plus you get put through the emotional wringer. Any you know that once the cops get their mitts on your weapons you will NEVER get them back, regardless of how the ruling goes.
Is the problem the person or the gun?
So you take away a gun and they drive up on a sidewalk.
Lock them up if they’re dangerous.
This is an anti gun law. Don’t fall for it.
CA & CO allow anonymous denunciations to police; names withheld from the `accused’ and by anyone, not just family members.
If you’re a gun owner & you voted for Trump, your liberal neighbor knows just how to punish you without any warning.
Not even the Soviet Union was like this; the KGB knew that “anonimkii” complaints were just cheap revenge and required informants to commit themselves on paper.
This is scary.
“”I will accept Red Flag laws as long as there are severe penalties for false accusations and the burden of proof lies with the accuser. Let’s see how that works.””
You already know without a moment of hesitation that those who accuse others falsely would NOT BE PUNISHED..It’s the way our society works today - that’s why we’re all so frustrated and agitated - people not being punished for all kinds of lies/crimes... Do we need any further evidence of that than Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation?
There’s already history of one parent accusing another of all kinds of dastardly deeds in child custody battles - the innocent parent suffers extreme emotional damage while the accuser smiles. There are any number of examples in our society that would be used - neighbor against neighbor, relative against relative, spouse against spouse, employee against employer, employer against employee - this is not the country we grew up in...
No. No acceptance for red flag laws.
People need to go to cops, swear affidavits, and the cops go get warrants. Do their gdam jobs proper without taking away rights under color of law bs sh1t laws.
No acceptance.
Yeah look at all the severe penalties for false rape accusations. The most lied about false crime reported, depending where you live anywhere between 35-50%.
Surely these wouldn’t be abused. /s
There won’t be, and it won’t.
People’s antisocial behavior in a society are restrained by two forces. Culture in the form of shared values. All the dos and don’ts inculcated in us by family, friends, churches and schools is the primary one and it is quite effective with the vast majority. For those that stray from the norms, there is the law that tries to restrain them.
As our culture becomes more depraved with no agreed upon values, the “passive” cultural restraints become less effective, and more reliance is put on the brute force of law to maintain social order. As the force of law becomes more dominant, the more oppressive life will feel.
And that’s where we’re heading.
Secret courts. No laws broken. Defendant is not allowed to face accusers or even made aware of the proceeding. No due process. Only the prosecutor meets with the judge. Defendant has to prove their innocence after the fact. No penalty for false accusations. Anyone can accuse anyone.
I don’t see how “red flag” can be any more unconstitutional and un-American or violate any further the attributes of common law or natural law. “Red Flag” is the opposite of every principle upon which our country was founded.
If you still think “red flag” is great, just substitute gun with speech or any of the rights we have from God.
“That doesn’t work. Such return suits are almost never filed because the accuser can’t be proven unafraid or undisturbed by the “loon”.
This is too dangerous a law to simply see how it works.
That’s how idiots fall for communism. Once the freedom is gone it’s too late.
How’s that repeal of commie care going?”
I’m not talking about filing suit, I’m talking about the justice system doing it. And, if there’s malice or it’s frivolous then it should be considered a hate crime. Frankly I think you’re drawing the communist thing to the point of irrelevancy.
Can one sue your accuser when falsely accused?
Red Flag laws are flagrant violations of due process. Any honest court would find them to be so. You cannot be deprived of life, liberty or property without Due Process, but that is EXACTLY what these laws do.
There are approximately 325 million people in this country. Of those, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 125 million on firearms, and 124,999,998 of them did not engage in mass murder last week. That we have elected representatives who have sworn in both to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution going out there and proposing that all innocent people be subjected to further restraints on their ability to exercise their rights because of the actions of two people, is incredibly offensive.
Hey, 'red flag' laws do NOT have to be limited to witches (or gun owners). That really could read, "There needed be no evidence of wrongdoing, but the government took action so as to protect society from the [fill in the blank].”
How about a 'red flag' law for drunk drivers? See someone park a car outside a bar, and call them in: the cops can show up with a tow truck, and take the car! Or, you see someone buy a computer - call 'em in, because they're probably another 'Jeff Epstein' kiddy-porn pervert! The cops can take the computer, and keep it until the 'owner' PROVES he/she wasn't planning to do anything illegal. The possibilities are endless (which is why totalitarians love 'red flag' laws)...
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