Posted on 04/30/2019 4:26:25 PM PDT by Kaslin
“The same was said about every ‘little victorious war’ by neocons.”
Not really. None of these previous wars were entered into lightly and often came about after months of debate, wrangling and posturing. The subsequent problems were less the initial engagements (usually weeks) than the unnecessary nation-building and endless peacemaking. Trump has no interest in that if you believe him and have faith in him.
No this could be a fairly straight-forward operation if Trump decides to topple Maduro, transfer power to the new government poised to take control and exit. That is — if Trump does it his way.
Should Bolton have said US invasion is off the table? It seems to be just a ploy to put pressure on VZ. I see little real action by Trump to invade VZ.
Is Trump a “neocon” too? After all he hired Bolton.
My preference would be for Trump to stay out for the reasons previously stated. The bigger picture is for the world to see communism get defeated from inside a country.
What is the purpose of war in this case? It won’t reach any objectives. Trump is certainly not neocon but he has a history of questionable hires.
Funny.
Agree. Venezuela is in the Western hemisphere. It is a home here to the Russians, the Chinese, and the Cubans. They should not be allowed to gain a foothold here.
It would not take much to defeat Maduro’s regime. At the least we could supply arms to the people who do not have any arms. That would bring a tsunami of criticism from the left and probably from some Republicans....but, IMHO, this option should be taken. Just IMHO.
Who said anything about war? I already stated the obvious possible objective.
All this is academic anyway. Trump says/tweets things or gets his people to say all sorts of things to mess with his opponents. Art of the deal, 3D chess and that jazz.
I really don't care.
Whenever someone like Bolton says “all options are on the table,”’ that should raise hackles everywhere. The US needs to keep itself out of that mess. The fact the US is about as popular in Venezuela as typhoid fever is what kept Chavez in power all those years. Let’s not forget, they likely still want socialism and think Chavez was better at running things than Maduro.
They got themselves into their current situation; they need to extricate themselves out of it. They are not worth one drop of American blood.
“Are you serious? You like the idea of Russian naval and air bases in Cuba and Venezuela? Are you OK with Russian submarines routinely operating in the Carribean just a short missile flight away?”
The Russians have been in the area supporting Cuba to varying degrees for decades.
“Talk is just talk. We need to demonstrate our unrelenting resolve to force him out.”
Well, sometimes it’s just best not to talk, isn’t it? Why are so anxious to spill yet more American blood for people who despise us? Didn’t the Iraq experience advance any learning in that regard?
You want into that mess? There are plenty opportunities through the mercenary path. Have at it.
“The people are defenseless”
Yet time and again, they re-elected those who made them defenseless. Sounds more like they just long for the “heady days” of the Chavez era. Let them sort this out; at the risk of sounding a bit Machiavellian, the longer that country agonizes as a result of socialism the better the case for socialism’s opponents.
“I really don’t care.”
Exactly.. especially when there’s no real indication the Venezuelans actually want to change the system that put them where they are in the first place. America has far more urgent matters to resolve.
I’m 99%* sure that Bolton’s statement is intended to simply make Maduro’s seat a bit hotter, therefor hopefully driving him to make that hop to Cuba sooner than later.
*You have to have that other 1% of uncertainty seriously in Maduro and his henchmen’s minds though, to have them thinking “What if Trump really would take me out...?” Ie., like the Iranian’s or Russian’s fear of “crazy Reagan, the threat has to be palpable.
That said, “all options” also should have Maduro fearing uncertainty in all regards, even “options” that might only exist in his own mind. “What if the US delivers half a million “Army surplus” old M16’s, abundant ammo, and a few million MRE’s, to the populace?”
The other side of this is that (partially due to our own previous blunders) that little war in Indo-China WAS necessary, and actually was in the larger context, successful, despite being horribly mismanaged and unnecessarily costly (esp. in lives lost) to us.
IF in the very unlikely event all else fails, and it would come as a last resort to US military action in Venezuela, do you actually think President Trump would fight there the way Johnson did in ‘Nam???
"Well, we have threats placed all around Russia (or pick your opponent of choice), so we can't complain if they want to improve their position in the Western Hemisphere."
Screw that!!!
The whole point of being a way-in-front superpower, and spending 5% of the GDP of the most wealthy nation on Earth (us) on our military, is to put and KEEP potential opponents in a "full Nelson". We do NOT ever want a "fair fight", with anybody. Yes, make it attractive to be our friend and do things mostly our way, and accord real friends respect if they deserve it. And, pick our battles wisely and don't stir up hornets' nests unnecessarily (Syria & the "Arab Spring" comes to mind). Many times power other than military can be applied.
But... Much of the world is a good deal uglier than a Chicago gangland. THAT is reality.
So, to our opponents: If you cause us and / or our allies too much trouble, if it comes to armed conflict, you have "no chance", and your only hope is how much we will burn the toast.
I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with the position that if a foe attacks us, we should respond by orders of magnitude, but some are advocating a unilateral military intervention to throw out Maduro, and that is a no-go. Venezuelans, who wanted socialism in the first place, are not worth a single American life lost.
I think if Maduro had left, it would be the beginning of the end and Russia wants their pet dictator there even if it kills him and a whole lot of Venezuelans. Russia wants to rule the Venezuelan roost and,from other comments about “warmongering Bolton” there’s a lot her that are just fine with that...freaking amazing.
And what if, in that massive corruptocracy down there, those weapons end up in the wrong hands? Who exactly are our friends down there?
Anybody who will throw out the Cubans, Russians, and Chinese would be an improvement.
Note that I am not advocating giving the weapons to the leaders of the organized (sort of) opposition. I am saying distribute them to the people. Some of that will go awry, but most will not.
This isn’t for the Venezuelans (for the most part).
Military intervention should be the last resort, though, so I do not advocate it at this time.
If learning occurred in this country after the debacle in Iraq, we won't intervene militarily at all. It's not our fight.
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