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To: Moonman62

How much muscle power does it take to pull back the yoke if the trim tab is set to nose down? Seems to me my arms would NEVER get tired.


25 posted on 03/20/2019 5:41:20 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

From the article:

The flight data recorder shows the final control column inputs from the first officer were weaker than the ones made earlier by the captain.


28 posted on 03/20/2019 5:46:10 AM PDT by Moonman62 (Facts are racist.)
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To: central_va
How much muscle power does it take to pull back the yoke if the trim tab is set to nose down? Seems to me my arms would NEVER get tired. Quite a lot of force actually but the aircraft is completely flyable with full nose up or nose down trim. It is a procedure we actually train for.
29 posted on 03/20/2019 5:46:41 AM PDT by drywhitetoast
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To: central_va

“How much muscle power does it take to pull back the yoke if the trim tab is set to nose down? Seems to me my arms would NEVER get tired.”

The aircraft apparently was in control, and it thought it was right. You can’t win that argument.


33 posted on 03/20/2019 5:48:46 AM PDT by PLMerite ("They say that we were Cold Warriors. Yes, and a bloody good show, too." - Robert Conquest)
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To: central_va

“How much muscle power does it take to pull back the yoke if the trim tab is set to nose down? Seems to me my arms would NEVER get tired.”

You likely would have fallen into the same trap as the doomed pilots appear to have done:

https://leehamnews.com/2018/11/14/boeings-automatic-trim-for-the-737-max-was-not-disclosed-to-the-pilots/

“To counter the MAX’s lower stability margins at high AOA, Boeing introduced MCAS. Dependent on AOA value and rate, altitude (air density) and Mach (changed flow conditions) the MCAS, which is a software loop in the Flight Control computer, initiates a nose down trim above a threshold AOA.

“It can be stopped by the Pilot counter-trimming on the Yoke or by him hitting the CUTOUT switches on the center pedestal. It’s not stopped by the Pilot pulling the Yoke, which for normal trim from the autopilot or runaway manual trim triggers trim hold sensors. This would negate why MCAS was implemented, the Pilot pulling so hard on the Yoke that the aircraft is flying close to stall.

“It’s probably this counterintuitive characteristic, which goes against what has been trained many times in the simulator for unwanted autopilot trim or manual trim runaway, which has confused the pilots of JT610. They learned that holding against the trim stopped the nose down, and then they could take action, like counter-trimming or outright CUTOUT the trim servo. But it didn’t. After a 10 second trim to a 2.5° nose down stabilizer position, the trimming started again despite the Pilots pulling against it. The faulty high AOA signal was still present.

“How should they know that pulling on the Yoke didn’t stop the trim? It was described nowhere; neither in the aircraft’s manual, the AFM, nor in the Pilot’s manual, the FCOM. This has created strong reactions from airlines with the 737 MAX on the flight line and their Pilots. They have learned the NG and the MAX flies the same. They fly them interchangeably during the week.

“They do fly the same as long as no fault appears. Then there are differences, and the Pilots should have been informed about the differences.


110 posted on 03/20/2019 11:11:22 AM PDT by Pelham (Secure Voter ID. Mexico has it, because unlike us they take voting seriously)
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