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To: jeffersondem; BroJoeK; rockrr
Just as liberals today are offended by memorials to southerners Lee, Jackson, Davis and others, northerners in the mid-1800s were offended by the limited constitutional government created by Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Mason - all southerners.

That's a pointless and historically illiterate parallel. Parties oppose each other and aren't crazy about the icons of the other side, but no Northerner was "offended" by anything about George Washington. Their fathers and grandfathers had fought in Washington's army for heaven's sake. He was the father of the country.

Some Northerners didn't love Jefferson. Some Southerners couldn't stand Hamilton or the Adamses, but I don't see that there was anything resembling today's conflicts over monuments. And the conflict over the size of the federal government was piddling by today's standards.

I don't even think you're right about the present day. Some Northerners (and some Southerners) may be "offended" by Confederate flags, but I don't think many Northerners are actually "offended" by monuments to Lee or Jackson. They aren't our thing. You have to figure out if they are yours or not.

Southerners had an agrarian culture that competed with northern love-of-money culture. Then, as now, northerners looked down on southerners. And northerners were jealous of southern successes.

I could just as well say that Northerners had a freedom culture that competed with Southern slaveowning culture, and that Southerners looked down on Northerners and feared Northern successes.

Time passed and northern accountants discovered slavery was not a good economic business model for industry but that it seemed to work for their economic and political rivals in the South. Ten seconds later Puritans in the North announced slavery was morally wrong.

We had a revolution in the name of freedom. Some people drew the obvious lesson about slavery from that. And some people didn't.

So, northerners decided to destroy their political and economic rivals in the South and overthrow the pro-slavery U.S. Constitution. And war came.

Nice fairy tale. Crawl back under your rock.

363 posted on 01/14/2019 8:34:18 PM PST by x
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To: x
“We had a revolution in the name of freedom. Some people drew the obvious lesson about slavery from that. And some people didn't.”

After the revolution, the North loved freedom, but the South did not. You say.

After the revolution, the North was against slavery. You say.

After the revolution, the North refused to make profits from buying and selling slaves, refused to make profits from the transportation of slaves, refused to make profits from transporting slave-grown cotton, and refused to make profits from processing slave-grown cotton. This you did not say.

After the revolution, 13 of the 13 original states were slave states and voted to enshrine slavery into the U.S. Constitution. This you did not say.

Let's do a quick roll call of the states that voted for the U.S. Constitution to be pro-slavery, and voted to include a constitutional amendment process which would make abolition of slavery difficult: New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Delaware, and Maryland.

Virginia, North and South Carolina, and Georgia also voted the same way.

But after the revolution the North loved freedom. You say.

365 posted on 01/14/2019 9:21:01 PM PST by jeffersondem
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To: x
North-en ‘freedom culture’ was essentially pragmatic materialism in which the highest value was assigned to becoming wealthy. The freedom was the freedom of the market place over everything else.
411 posted on 01/15/2019 8:46:48 AM PST by robowombat (Orthodox)
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