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1 posted on 07/17/2018 7:50:43 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

But I disagree. The point of tariffs, from our point of view, is to eliminate or lower tariffs already imposed by our trading partners. They already put tariffs on our goods. Trump says, take yours down and we’ll take ours down. But we had to put some in place to be able to make that offer.

Since they sell more to us than we sell to them, they can’t really hurt us by further raising tariffs on us. At some point they have no choice but to make a deal. Or, we simply get the same product from somewhere else.


2 posted on 07/17/2018 7:56:20 AM PDT by marron
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To: SeekAndFind

So his argument is, it is okay that we send a lot of our money overseas to purchase products, because those foreign companies use that money to purchase ownership in US companies?


3 posted on 07/17/2018 7:59:39 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Higher prices in Canada pay for all the socialized “goodies” they love... until they start complaining about the pricing and taxes...

Perhaps they too, think somebody else is paying for it all... Does the idiocy ever end?


4 posted on 07/17/2018 7:59:55 AM PDT by Clutch Martin (The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.)
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To: SeekAndFind
When voluntary exchange occurs, it means that both parties are better off in their own estimation — not Trump's estimation or General Motors' estimation. I'd like to hear the moral case for third-party interference with such an exchange.

Well that's sort of like Plato's Ideal Plane, Professor. It doesn't actually exist in the real world. Third parties are ALWAYS butting-in on these exchanges, and likely they always will. Trump is trying to arm-wrestle them into accepting more even terms.




5 posted on 07/17/2018 8:00:08 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SeekAndFind
Tariffs raise tremendous revenue, are voluntary and protect US industry. win - win - win.

"I keep asking the establishment shills why America has some moral obligation to tolerate foreign countries imposing higher tariffs upon us than we impose upon them. Seems facially unfair, right? So, there’s got to be a really good reason because how can you support our working people facing a higher obstacle to trade than the foreigners do? I’m just wondering what’s wrong with a level playing field. Fair is fair, right? But I never get a good answer."

Link here.

8 posted on 07/17/2018 8:06:52 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn)
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To: SeekAndFind

Walter Williams should be on Trump’s team. Thomas Sowell too.


9 posted on 07/17/2018 8:07:10 AM PDT by Mr. K (No consequence of repealing Obamacare is worse than Obamacare itself.)
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To: SeekAndFind

bmp


10 posted on 07/17/2018 8:07:24 AM PDT by gattaca ("Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." Ronald Reagan)
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To: SeekAndFind

The Canadian dairy cartel limits production to keep prices high. That is all.


11 posted on 07/17/2018 8:08:42 AM PDT by deadrock
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To: SeekAndFind
This retaliation policy is both cruel and not very smart. It's as if you and I were in a rowboat out at sea and I shot a hole in my end of the boat. What should be your response? If you were Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross or Secretary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin, you might advise retaliating by shooting a hole in your end of the boat.

Even though I really like they guy, this is disingenuous of Williams. Yes, of course tariffs hurt American consumers, but what he purposely leaves out here is that they also hurt other nations trying to sell goods here. The real argument is "Who does it hurt more and can the hurting stop the foreign nation from imposing tariffs on American exports?". I wish his column had addressed that.

14 posted on 07/17/2018 8:10:18 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: SeekAndFind

Free trade is great when all the participants in the equation are good actors, well intentioned, etc.

It doesn’t work when they aren’t. You wouldn’t sell a gun to a person you knew had a high likelihood to use it against you, no matter what price he offers to pay.

And that’s the probelm with the “capital account surpluses”, foreign entities aren’t all investing in the US for our benefit, they are doing so they can influence us politicially for their benefit.


15 posted on 07/17/2018 8:10:41 AM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: SeekAndFind

Dollar for Dollar. If they dont agree, then impose a tariff.


16 posted on 07/17/2018 8:10:54 AM PDT by crz
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To: SeekAndFind
Why is it morally wrong for us to do what the rest of the world is doing to us?
I believe in higher moral ground and all that but let's not be completely blind.
I believe Trumps long term goal is to entice the other countries to get rid of *their* tariffs.

21 posted on 07/17/2018 8:17:18 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (I'd rather have Unequal Wealth than Equal Poverty.)
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To: SeekAndFind

We (Canadians) might not need or want tariffs on dairy products if your government didn’t subsidize the hell out of their production. You know, subsidies, the things that you keep slapping tariffs on our softwood lumber for? The US massively overproduces dairy products because of those subsidies.


23 posted on 07/17/2018 8:20:58 AM PDT by -YYZ- (Strong like bull, smart like tractor.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The Chinese, for example, believe strongly in protecting their industries.

And they do reinvest their money, buying up huge swaths of farmland in the US, and oil and gas properties, mineral rights, and companies particularly involved in technologies that interest them. Their land and oil purchases usually are at the 33% level to keep them under the radar, but they are enormous.

US investors are not able to do the same thing in China. And even if they were able to, their investments simply do not have the same legal protections, they can be taken anytime as people building companies there have discovered.

So, again, there is no level playing field. Their industries are protected, and ours are not. Their investments here are protected, and ours there are not. And not many people get that, and not many who get it have any interest in doing anything about it.


26 posted on 07/17/2018 8:23:12 AM PDT by marron
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To: SeekAndFind

I missed where Prof. Williams offered a solution. In fact, he seemed to endorse the notion that enormous outward flows of cash hundreds of billions of dollars isn’t anything to worry about. Is this because he believes that printing paper money without any product to back it up is economically harmless?


33 posted on 07/17/2018 8:46:31 AM PDT by dangus
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To: SeekAndFind
I'd like to hear the moral case for third-party interference with such an exchange.

If there were no tariffs, no third party should interfere.

There are multiple, large, unfair {to US workers} tariffs and barriers to prevent US goods from being bought by German citizens {in the case of Mercedes}.

Walter Williams, and all of the other 'free traders' live in a world as they want it to be, not as it is.

The USA is not pure in the tariff battle, we protect sugar, hell we even protect 'peanut farmers', llama raisers, and hell raisers.

Trump wants a world with no tariffs and then let the cream rise to the top.

36 posted on 07/17/2018 9:55:14 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Kill all mooselimb, terrorist savages, with extreme prejudice! Deus Vult!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Hey, Walter, I majored in Economics in college, and have studied the field for my entire adult life. I am very well aware of what free market textbooks and doctrine are regarding tariffs. Put simply: “Tariffs = Bad.”

However, like many academics, you have failed to step back from looking intently at a few trees so that you can look at the entire forest - and thereby obtain a better view of what is really going on.

Donald Trump understands economics - well. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t have turned a $1 million loan into a multi-billion dollar fortune. But he also understands looking at the big picture - again, well.

The big picture is that we are on the losing side of a trade war with much of the rest of the world - mainly because people like you have (in good faith) pressured our government into NOT fighting such a trade war. Well, what happens when only one side fights a war? The other side loses, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Well, Donald Trump decided that this was/is unacceptable, mainly because it is incredibly naive and simply isn’t working for this country. He is imposing tariffs in order to force the other side to the negotiating table. It is similar to Nixon bombing the crap out of Hanoi and Haiphong Harbor in late 1972 - you wouldn’t ordinarily do so, but inflicting pain on someone that you want to negotiate with is a great way to get him to the table, and also to get him to make some concessions to you because he wants you to stop inflicting pain upon him.

Walter, this is a NEGOTIATING TACTIC. Be assured that Donald Trump knows a thing or two about how to successfully negotiate with those whose interests are diametrically opposed to his own. His goal is not to have tariffs, or a protectionist policy, it is to get the OTHER NATIONS to reduce or eliminate THEIR tariffs.

Really, this is not all that complicated. Why otherwise intelligent people don’t get it is beyond me. Maybe it is because they don’t live in the real world of making money (or going broke if you don’t do that well).


37 posted on 07/17/2018 11:11:52 AM PDT by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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