Posted on 06/10/2018 8:00:47 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
The museum is coming.
https://www.armorcavalryheritagefoundation.org/museum-1
Projected opening date is in 2022.
I’m probably being naive, but I see this more as an expense move. The T-90 isn’t in the same class as the M-1, but it’s cheaper to acquire and maintain. Probably easier to train poorly educated Iraqis how to handle.
Yes, cheaper to buy and maintain are legitimate reasons. And this T-90 sale is probably an “export” version without all of the Russian’s technology in it. That would be in line with the AFV sales of the USSR to its non-Warsaw Pact. client states. If I recall correctly, the Iraqi T-72’s we faced in Desert Storm turned out to be lacking the technology we had verified was in Soviet/Warsaw Pact T-72s.
Yes, cheaper to buy and maintain are legitimate reasons. And this T-90 sale is probably an “export” version without all of the Russian’s technology in it. That would be in line with the AFV sales of the USSR to its non-Warsaw Pact. client states. If I recall correctly, the Iraqi T-72’s we faced in Desert Storm turned out to be lacking the technology we had verified was in Soviet/Warsaw Pact T-72s.
Wmileo, the initial problems with the M-1 prototypes was their air cleaners not being able to handle the fine sand/grit when they were tested at Ft. Bliss and White Sands. Folks used that as an argument not to buy the M-1. The air cleaners were redesigned to solve that problem.
And I don’t recall hearing from buddies in the 3d Armored Division that their M-1s shipped directly from Germany to Saudi Arabia for Operation Desert Storm had any problem with the air cleaners handling the Saudi and Kuwaiti sand.
2nd ACR didn’t have issues with theirs either.
Oh yeah the M1A1’s during Desert Storm could engage and destroy the Iraqi tanks at ranges well outside their detection range. In fact @ 73 Easting, some of the Iraqi commanders thought they were being hit with airstrikes.
Thanks for the ping.
Just because it had a long service life doesn’t mean it was any good to start with or remained a good idea. There are many things that stuck around in US service long after their sell-by dates.
Correct - among other things, the Iraqi versions were the very base models equivalent to the T-72A or other early versions, without the more advanced sighting system (no thermal imaging, for example) or any sort of Active Protection System. IIRC they also got a slower, crappier version of the autoloader too.
Export Abrams for Iraq don’t have the DU armor package, no thermal sights, much crappier radios and are missing a lot of automation. The configuration of an export Abrams varies by where it’s going. The most advanced one sold is the M1A2S, sold to the Saudis only; the Iraqis got the M1A1M.
As mentioned elsewhere, that’s not a shot trap. Looks like it, but is actually blocks of heavy ERA. The turret under it is the classic Russian ‘inverted frying pan’ dome shape.
Didn’t say the current sabot rounds were ineffective against ERA - was saying that ERA didn’t deflect penetrators down to penetrate the hull because that’s not how ERA works.
The answer appears to be no as of this writing. Many attempts have been made but only one got foreign military sales (Stingray) and that was just one sale to Thailand.
Mostly our allies other than Britain that didn’t want an Abrams buy German-made Leopard tanks and they seem perfectly happy with them... or were before Turkey unintentionally demonstrated how screwed most NATO tanks are without active protection systems against Russian ATGMs through their actions in Syria.
Failing that, there is a Russian T-72 on display at the Canadian War Museum in Ottowa, Canada. There was another one at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds’ Ordnance Museum but that museum has been moved to Fort Lee. There’s an Iraqi one in Danville, VA at the American Armor Foundation museum.
The Bovington Tank Museum in the UK and the Australian Armor Museum also have T-72s inside on public display. Here’s a video of the Australian one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krp2y88nNCo
Sales video for the T-90S outlining the improvements and capabilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfGP-dGjjnY
If that’s the one I’m thinking of, that’s the one that had a mechanical failure in Syria and was abandoned. ISIS torched it afterwards as they were unable to operate it and used it as a propaganda tool. The ammo cookoff during the fire blew the turret off.
There *is* video of a T-90A eating an ATGM in Syria but this AFAIK isn’t from that tank. The one that ate the ATGM reportedly had its APS turned off due to being in tight urban quarters.
And yes, it’s a bit more faceted than its T-72 forebear but it’s still an inverted frying pan shape, just polygonalized as it were. The triangular faces you see on the intact turrets are the ERA blocks.
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