[HarleyD]

This was addressed by St. Paul to the Colossians -

You make it sound as if indulgences is in the Bible. It is not. It was first invented by Pope Urban II around 1099 to encourage people to fight in the Crusades. As all false doctrine, it reached the pinnacle of corruption when Pope Leo needed funds to pay for the Vatican.

What you neglect in your theology is that ANY fruit that we bring forth (part 3), is solely because of the work of Christ in us. He is the vine. We are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. There IS no good work that we can do apart from Christ. Indulgences is a heretical doctrine and takes away from the work of Christ and the working of the Holy Spirit.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I didn't say indulgences as such are unequivocally proved in the Bible; I don't even make that claim for the purificatory (purgatorial) state after death.

The idea is there in embryo, without being fully defined, much like the doctrine of the Trinity, the Eschaton, and even the clear-cut Table of Contents of the Canonical collection of the Bible itself.

As for purgatory, I said, not that it is explicitly named, proved, and fully defined, but that it is consistent with what the Bible teaches about three things:

• God's requiting of every single person with perfect justice according to their deeds, i.e. temporal punishment Col 3:25, Hebrews 12:6 ;

• God's refining of the souls of the just "like silver" for the absolute perfection and purity required to live in God's presence Zech 13:9,1 Cor 3:15; and

• God's action making us members of the Body of Christ and thus cooperators and co-sharers of spiritual gifts, through powerful and effectual prayer. This is also called the Communion of Saints James 5:16, Romans 5:12.

Keep in the front of your attention that the above is distinct from salvation/damnation. It's not about whether you're saved or damned. Salvation is a total gift from God's grace through Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross. That's different from God chastising and refining us, making us sharers of spiritual goods as His children into Christ.

This requiting, refining, and effective spiritual sharing is all about how He deals --- not with the lost souls, the damned--- but with His children -- according to Scripture. In God's great mercy, I hope that's every one of us.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"[Doctrine of Indulgences] reached the pinnacle of corruption when Pope Leo needed funds to pay for the Vatican."

The doctrine WAS handled corruptly at the time (11th century). It was simony, "money for spiritual good," always known as a sin. You won't find any Catholic today that denies that simony is wrong, neither Tetzel nor the simoniacal popes were saints, and (on the topic of simony) Luther was certainly right.

What we affirm in our theology is that ANY fruit that we bring forth, is solely because of the work of Christ in us. He is the vine. We are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. There IS no good work that we can do apart from Christ.

Correctly understood, "Indulgences" is not a heretical doctrine because it does not take away from the work of Christ and the working of the Holy Spirit. On the contrary, it shows how God has graciously accomplished it all in His Mystical Body, in which we are joined to Him and members of one another.