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To: otness_e; BillyBoy; LS; Impy; GOPsterinMA; NFHale

This has been debated endlessly. I would not and could not call JFK “Conservative” by much of any standard, certainly not one with those principles. He was a rank opportunist. He and his brother Bobby partly rode Joe McCarthy’s coattails - opportunism. McCarthy was quite popular in the early 1950s before the Deep State and political establishment went to work on destroying him. McCarthy was mega-popular amongst Irish Catholic Democrats in Massachusetts and Joe Kennedy knew that and was using him to try to depose the liberal elitist Sen. Lodge and install his son as Senator. Again, pure opportunism.

In the 1950s, most of the Irish Catholic community was socially Conservative and it was a loser not to be if you were trying to appeal to them. JFK (opportunistically) ran to Lodge’s right in 1952 and managed to defeat the incumbent. Sadly, he would lead a whole group of Americans down the primrose path to social leftism and carried on by his brothers (and helped in no small part by the leftist overthrow in the church, Vatican II). No, indeed calling JFK “Conservative” is erroneous (and saying that he was by 2018 standards isn’t really a fair and legitimate comparison, because you assume he would remain static in his viewpoints if magically moved 6 decades later - he was already a part of and leading the leftward, big government-centered movement of the party). Ronald Reagan called him out as a left-winger at the time.

I disagree vehemently that JFK would have not backed all the coming leftist issues embraced by the Democrats. How many Democrats stood up strongly against Roe for the long term ? Teddy did for about 5 minutes before caving. Too much pressure from an ever-increasing left-wing and radicalized base. Only a rare few individuals, like PA Governor Bob Casey, Sr., stood opposed to infanticide, and he was marginalized in the party by 1992, not even 20 whole years after Roe.

Let’s face it, JFK was a libertine, and any initiatives that would make his lifestyle choices more acceptable by legislation, he would’ve embraced.


101 posted on 10/29/2018 11:17:11 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj ("It's Slappin' Time !")
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To: fieldmarshaldj

“This has been debated endlessly. I would not and could not call JFK “Conservative” by much of any standard, certainly not one with those principles. He was a rank opportunist. He and his brother Bobby partly rode Joe McCarthy’s coattails - opportunism. McCarthy was quite popular in the early 1950s before the Deep State and political establishment went to work on destroying him. McCarthy was mega-popular amongst Irish Catholic Democrats in Massachusetts and Joe Kennedy knew that and was using him to try to depose the liberal elitist Sen. Lodge and install his son as Senator. Again, pure opportunism.”

If he were opportunist regarding Joe McCarthy, they would have sided against McCarthy and made sure he came out tarred and feathered, since that’s EXACTLY what the Democrat Party did at the time, made sure he ended up with a destroyed reputation. I know that’s exactly what I would have done had I been them and I been opportunistic since that’s EXACTLY what most Democrats did. In fact, the vast majority of the Democrats, even Harry Truman, who was painted as a hardliner against Communism, practically turned on McCarthy like a used car. The fact that JFK actually sided with him, AGAINST the rest of his party, would strongly suggest he isn’t opportunistic, or at least, he’s less opportunistic than most other members of the party. I know if I were one of those other democrats and operated under their viewpoint, then Irish Catholic Democrats in Massachusetts or not, I would have probably gone out of my way to ensure he got tarred and feathered, NOT defend him even when the rest of the democrat party is against me, because that’s exactly how the others acted during that time, again, including even Harry Truman.

“I disagree vehemently that JFK would have not backed all the coming leftist issues embraced by the Democrats. How many Democrats stood up strongly against Roe for the long term ? Teddy did for about 5 minutes before caving. Too much pressure from an ever-increasing left-wing and radicalized base. Only a rare few individuals, like PA Governor Bob Casey, Sr., stood opposed to infanticide, and he was marginalized in the party by 1992, not even 20 whole years after Roe.”

I can name quite a few liberal people who stood against it regardless of party ties: Jack Nicholson, for starters, is liberal enough that he spoke glowingly of Cuba under Castro of all places, and you’d be surprised to learn that he’s actually one of the more pro-life of them, especially when he himself nearly ended up aborted. Same goes for Martin Sheen, who actually went as far as to avoid associating himself with Barack Obama precisely BECAUSE of the latter’s pro-Abortion stance, and part of the reason he was against Obama’s pro abortion stance was because he was also Catholic. And let’s not forget Randall Terry, who is explicitly a Democrat, yet has even gone to jail to push the pro-life message, campaigned on it. And bear in mind, Nicholson and Sheen are both current and very openly left-wing in various issues. If they can speak out against abortion even today, let alone presumably back then, I’m pretty sure JFK would do the same, period, even if he is leftist. There’s even a whole list of them compiled here, and with footnotes as well:

https://www.conservapedia.com/List_of_celebrities_who_support_the_Right_to_Life


102 posted on 10/29/2018 11:35:21 AM PDT by otness_e
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