Tammy Bruce: Lincoln vs. Obama -- The incredible tale of two libraries

Fox News.com ^ | May 16, 2017 | Tammy Bruce

[Kaslin]

This is a story of priorities and hypocrisy, brought to us by a president who saved the Union and was murdered for it, and a president whose policies and malevolence damaged both the nation and the world, and who is being rewarded for it.

The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation is in trouble. It is auctioning off non-Lincoln related artifacts in an effort to pay back a loan that is coming due. You see, the Lincoln Library doesn’t make a lot of money or attract enough major donors to operate. This is odd, considering President Lincoln is a “favorite” president for so many of today’s modern politicians.

Lincoln wasn’t just a regular touchstone, as an example, for the now super wealthy Barack Obama, he was used to help get Mr. Obama elected as president. Mr. Obama’s affinity for, and similarity to, Mr. Lincoln was made clear to us by his sycophantic legacy media.

“In the last couple of years, several best-selling books have focused on the life and political skills of the nation’s 16th president. And one man in particular has taken a particular interest in not just reading about the Illinois politician, but also modeling himself politically after him. That man: Barack Obama, who will be sworn in as the nation’s 44th — and first African-American — president Tuesday …,” gushed CNN on Jan. 19, 2009.

The New York Times told us, “Not since Lincoln has there been a president as fundamentally shaped — in his life, convictions and outlook on the world — by reading and writing as Barack Obama.” Obama the bookworm. And even better than Lincoln.

[DiogenesLamp]

The standards of the era means nothing to you.

It is not about what I prefer them to be, it is what I recognize them to be. I prefer that slavery hadn't been enshrined into the US Constitution, but i'm not going to lie about it and pretend it wasn't.

[DiogenesLamp]

Non sequitur.

[DoodleDawg]

...obama IS THE BIGGEST POS ever.

Not according to at least one person posting on this thread.

[DoodleDawg]

It is not about what I prefer them to be, it is what I recognize them to be

And the difference being?

[DiogenesLamp]

Truth hurt?

I would say by your reactions that it does, but it isn't however hurting me.

But your post is BS not because the quotes were made up, I believe that they are all somewhat accurate, but because you neglected to mention that quotes are from the cabinet meeting on March 15 or 16, and that at the March 29 cabinet meeting the vote to resupply Sumter and retain Pickens was 4 to 2 in favor

The point in question was whether the cabinet believed such an action would cause a war. You are conflating a decision to do it anyway as the cabinet having changed it's mind about causing a war.

The reality is that the cabinet still believed it would cause a war, but now a majority was in favor of doing it anyway. (They all served at the pleasure of a President who wanted a war.)

On the "cause a war", the cabinet didn't change it's mind. It is your attempt to portray it's vote on doing the mission as having changed it's mind about causing a war is the dishonest misrepresentation of the event.

[DiogenesLamp]

yeah, always hated that he ordered the firing on Fort Sumter...

Yes, he ordered the firing on Ft. Sumter weeks earlier. That is entirely my point. Lincoln deliberately started that war by launching warships with orders to attack the Confederates if they resisted resupplying the fort that people in his government had been promising them would be evacuated.

[DiogenesLamp]

any logical reason to believe you over actual historians...?

This is so cute. You act like that little bit you quoted actually refutes something or other.

[Pearls Before Swine]

Whether or not the CW was destined to occur is not going to be settled by reference to founding documents. The differences between the North and South were great, and people were angry. And, there’s no going back.

So, I don’t want to argue at any length about projections of alternate histories.

There’s only opinions, no definite conclusions to be reached. Especially in this case, where what’s done was done over 150 years ago.

[DiogenesLamp]

Lincoln made it clear that Sumter was a US fort and not one belonging to South Carolina.

You didn't answer my question about whether you knew about the warships sailing to attack the Confederates. This question is relevant because if you didn't know about that, It is likely that you didn't know about a whole lot of other things that further cause reasonable people to question Lincoln's actions.

The US government had been sending signals about the evacuating the fort both before and after Lincoln took office. This Union Army officer (Abner Doubleday, brevet Major-General, U.S.A.)says that the Confederates were informed in December of 1860 that control of the forts would be turned over to them.

Soon after his arrival which took place on the 21st of November, Anderson wanted the sand removed from the walls of Moultrie, and urged that it be done. Suddenly the Secretary of War seemed to adopt this view. He pretended there was danger of war with England, with reference to Mexico, which was absurd; and under this sudden zeal to put the harbor of Charleston in condition,-to be turned over to the Confederate forces. He appropriated $150,000 for Moultrie and $80,000 to finish Sumter.

I’d say the American public is a bit more aware of what happened down there than you give them credit for.

The American Public has been sold a narrative since at least 1860, and is unaware of a whole lot of things that shed a very different light on the events surrounding that period. I used to be among them in believing the official narrative, and over time I learned that much of it is very misleading.

So did you know about warships sailing to attack the Confederates?

I'll tell you something else. General Beauregard sent word to Major Anderson (Beauregard was Anderson's student at West Point) and informed him that Ships were coming to attack Beauregard's forces. He asked for Anderson's word that he would not use the guns of the fort to attack the Confederate forces if those ships showed up and started attacking them.

Anderson refused. Beauregard clearly understood that when the ships attacked, so too would Ft. Sumter.

So what would you do?

[DiogenesLamp]

The differences between the North and South were great, and people were angry.

People were not angry. Most Northerners felt that the South should be left to go it's own way in peace. No one had any desire to use force to stop them. Horace Greeley (editor of a Newspaper in New York) said this:

To withdraw from the Union is quite another matter; whenever a considerable section of our Union shall deliberately resolve to go out, we shall resist all coercive measure designed to keep it in. We hope never to live in a republic whereof one section is pinned to another by bayonets.

From the Tribune, Nov. 26, 1860.

He also urged the government to tell the South:

"Wayward sisters, depart in peace."

The North was against a war to keep them in until Lincoln deliberately engineered a confrontation to start a war. He deliberately inflamed the passions of the people, and he knew exactly what he was doing.

Why did Lincoln insist on doing this? What you didn't know is that the war was about money. This money.

What you also don't know is that 73-82% of the trade money represented by that pile of coins on New York would have shifted to the South, because the South was producing about 80% of all European trade with the United States.

Lincoln and his New York backers were not going to let that money go.

[DiogenesLamp]

Kind of irrelevant since South Carolina militia had already fired on an unarmed US troop transport ship sailing to Sumter in January 1861 before Lincoln had even assumed the Presidency.

People keep repeating that, and they don't really care if it is accurate.

Cadets at the Citadel took it upon themselves to fire at "Star of the West", which was not a "troop transport ship", it was a cargo ship carrying provisions.

These cadets were not part of the Confederate Military chain of command, and they did slight damage to the ship.

But if you are going to say whoever shot first caused the war, then I will inform you that Union soldiers fired at Florida Militia before the "Star of the West" incident even happened.

[DiogenesLamp]

And the difference being?

Objectivity versus personal preference.

[rockrr]

So what would you do?

The only honorable thing - I would stand down.

[DiogenesLamp]

please don’t confuse our Civil War genius with logical premises; he refuses to accept that the Southrons were spoiling for war...

They offered to do nothing if Anderson had agreed not to fire upon them when those Union ships arrived to force entry.

Doesn't sound like they were spoiling for war. In fact, if you read the messages between Beauregard and Anderson, you realize both men were horrified of the idea, and wanted to do anything Honor would permit to avoid it.

Anderson had in fact informed Beauregard that he would evacuate the fort if given a little more time. Beauregard was going to give him as much time as he wanted if that fleet of Warships hadn't shown up.

Anderson puts the blame on his government for starting the war.

I had the honor to receive by yesterday's mail the letter of the honorable Secretary of War, dated April 4, and confess that what he there states surprises me very greatly, following as it does and contradicting so positively the assurance Mr. Crawford telegraphed he was authorized to make. I trust that this matter w ill be at once put in a correct light, as a movement made now, when the South has been erroneously informed that none such will be attempted, would produce most disastrous results throughout our country.

It is, of course, now too late for me to give any advice in reference to the proposed scheme of Captain Fox. I fear that its result cannot fail to be disastrous to all concerned. Even with his boat at our walls the loss of life (as I think I mentioned to Mr. Fox) in unloading her will more than pay for the good to be accomplished by the expedition, which keeps us, if I can maintain possession of this work, out of position, surrounded by strong works, which must be carried to make this fort of the least value to the United States Government.

We have not oil enough to keep a light in the lantern for one night. The boats will have, therefore, to rely at night entirely upon other marks. I ought to have been informed that this expedition was to come. Colonel Lamon's remark convinced me that the idea, merely hinted at to me by Captain Fox, would not be carried out. We shall strive to do our duty, though I frankly say that my heart is not in the war which I see is to be thus commenced. That God will still avert it, and cause us to resort to pacific measures to maintain our rights, is my ardent prayer.

I am, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

ROBERT ANDERSON,

Major, First Artillery, Commanding.

[rockrr]

These cadets were not part of the Confederate Military chain of command, and they did slight damage to the ship.

When someone is shooting at you, sane people don't waste a lot of time contemplating relative affiliations or ideology.

It surprises me not that you are oblivious to this important point.

[DiogenesLamp]

Several of the ships were armed. And they were carrying men and munitions to be landed at Sumter if the resupply was opposed. But had the South not chosen to start the war, the fleet would have done nothing but land food and supplies, no reinforcements or munitions.

Had Lincoln not intended to start the war, he would have ordered the evacuation of that utterly useless fort as various US Government officials had been telling the South would happen soon.

In fact, it was so certain that the "National Republican", (Official Newspaper of the Republican Party") announced the Fort was to be evacuated.

[DiogenesLamp]

When someone is shooting at you, sane people don't waste a lot of time contemplating relative affiliations or ideology.

When it comes to accusing one group of people for what was done by another group of people, it is more honest to put the blame on the people who actually did it.

[rockrr]

Useless word salad...

[DoodleDawg]

Had Lincoln not intended to start the war, he would have ordered the evacuation of that utterly useless fort as various US Government officials had been telling the South would happen soon.

Again opinion masquerading as fact. But if you want facts then here:

Fact: Sumter was the property of the U.S. government and the South had no legal claim to it.

Fact: the garrison at Sumter took no hostile actions against the Confederacy until they started the bombardment. This in spite of at least two prior occurrences of rebel batteries firing on ships and in the face of the rebel attempt to starve them into surrender.

Fact: Lincoln made his intentions clear to Governor Pickens before the resupply effort sailed. Only food and supplies would be landed and no men and munitions unless the resupply was opposed.

Fact: when faced with a continuation of the status quo, Davis chose to start a war.

[DoodleDawg]

Objectivity versus personal preference.

And on every occasion what you prefer things to be is, coincidentally, what you recognize them to be.