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To: Boogieman
...Paul lists every manner of sin here, with no specific focus only on sexual or sodomite sins. He stresses repeatedly every single person is guilty of the same things he is talking about and all deserve the same judgement under the law. To try and use these verses to argue for some special penalty against only one group of sinners is to miss the point completely.

Your argument is not lost on me. I understand we are heading ultimately to Romans 3:23 and 3:26.

But the fact is that Paul does focus on sexual sin here in Romans 1, because it is exceedingly grave. It is gateway path of degradation which marks one of God's turning over points. Idolatry, the first, leads to this uncleaness (:24). And sexual perversion ultimately leads to a reprobate mind. (:28)

Romans (:29ff) is not a casual list sins, but a culmination of "all unrighteousness". Sexual perversion goes hand in glove with the most wicked manifestations. As I pointed out in my first post from Jude:

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 7)

Homosexuals and homosexualists (as Scott Lively calls them -- those who champion sexual perversion although they themselves may not personally engage in the obvious sodomite varieties) compromise the very group Paul characterizes in :32 -- "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

Please clarify for me:


54 posted on 04/30/2018 12:55:08 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: nonsporting

“Are you saying that sodomite behavior is not deserving of the death penalty?”

As much as all those sins listed are worth of it, as verse 32 said:

“that those who practice such things are deserving of death”

“Those things”, of course, includes EVERYTHING Paul listed, including being disobedient to your parents, being proud, being boastful, being deceitful, unforgiving, etc. Paul clearly tells us EVERY sin is worthy of the death penalty. However, I don’t hear many people calling for an actual institution of the death penalty by civic authorities for things like lying, boasting, or dishonoring your mother and father.

“Are you saying God over reacted in Genesis 18, 19? (He said their sin was “exceedingly grave”)”

No, God’s judgement is righteous. His mercy is also righteous, and we should be glad of it, since he spared some of us from that judgement.

“Can you show me where God has repealed the death penalty for sodomite and other deviant behavior, either in the OT or NT?”

Are we living in the ancient kingdom of Israel? If not, then those laws can hardly be said to be active as our civic laws. If so, then we had better hurry up and catch up on all those ritual sacrifices their prescribe, and start stoning adulterers and all sorts of other offenders too.

The true “death penalty” for homosexuality is God’s judgement that will come if a sinner doesn’t repent of that sin and find grace in Jesus, just the same death penalty that any other sinner will suffer.

Now if you think it’s in the best interests of society to institute the death penalty for homosexuality, you should just make that argument. However, if you are going to claim we need to do it because God commands it, then you should at least be consistent and demand the death penalty for the rest of the capital crimes listed in the OT law as well.


60 posted on 05/01/2018 9:53:35 AM PDT by Boogieman
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