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To: marktwain
Self defence is legal in Australia. Using a weapon in self defence is legal in Australia in particular circumstances.

The fact that Dunstan was cleared and has had his firearms returned basically confirms this.

The problem is the process he had to go through to do so.

That's what we really need to fix - the current situation in practice makes assumptions of guilt and puts a person in a situation where they wind up being forced in practice to prove themselves innocent, rather than the situation which is still meant to apply of innocent until proven guilty.

It also leaves too much in the hands of the judgement of local police in deciding how to proceed without truly making it clear to them that their judgement will be taken seriously. Most police are actually fairly sensible in my experience - but politicians and similar interfere so much that the police feel they have to be overly bureaucratic and narrow in their interpretations when they are supposed to have discretion.

24 posted on 03/26/2018 5:23:53 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: marktwain
I think I'd sum things up by saying that I was always fairly confident that Dunstan would eventually be cleared. I think most people who understand Australian gun laws shared that confidence.

But we also knew he'd have to go through a long, complex, and overly bureaucratic process to do so. Because that's where our big problems are.

Decisions that should take days take weeks. And those that should take weeks take months.

25 posted on 03/26/2018 5:26:40 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: naturalman1975

Using a weapon in self defence is legal in Australia in particular circumstances.

The fact that Dunstan was cleared and has had his firearms returned basically confirms this.


Having watched this case and read the law, I am not convinced of this. Dunstan won through because he was able to mobilize significant support in his case, and because he carefully structured his answers to the effect that he “did not use” his unloaded rifle in self defense.

It might have come out very differently if he said he had pointed the rifle at the miscreant, or if he had loaded it.

Political pressure was brought to bear for him.

That is not something I would want to count on.

The firearms law in New South Wales has been held, buy the Supreme Court, to only allow use of a firearm for the purpose(s) listed on the firearm license.

Self Defense is no considered a legitimate purpose.

I value your opinion, but anyone other than a police officer, or maybe a licensed security guard, who uses a firearm for self defense in NSW is quite likely to lose their license. IMHO

I agree that most police seem sensible in Australia. I think the reform proposed to add “without reasonable excuse” would be an excellent reform for the law.


26 posted on 03/26/2018 5:43:19 PM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries.)
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