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Any history of the convention makes it clear that what secession proposals there where, and they were a few made by a small minority of the delegates, were not taken seriously and had not chance of being adopted. Confederate supporters love to point to the Harford Convention as acceptance of secession but overlook the fact that no secession was proposed by the convention much less attempted.

The fact that a resolution for secession was not adopted says nothing about the fact that they thought it the right of each state. They simple did not choose to exercise it.

2. And I will repeat that Madison did not say that states could not secede, certainly not later in life. The question is how that secession comes about and Madison believed that it must be done with the consent of the states that are staying as well as the states that are leaving. Unilateral secession as advocated by you makes a complete mockery of the Constitution.

and I will repeat that Madison’s views about this which he expressed decades after ratification are not relevant. What is relevant is what he said BEFORE ratification as this goes to the original intent of the parties at the time that they ratified the constitution. Not only would the right of unilateral secession not make a mockery of the constitution. On the contrary it would demonstrate the voluntary nature of the union and act as a check on the tendency of the federal government to become oppressive toward one or more states. That is totally in keeping with the Founder’s original intent. One only need read the Declaration of Independence to see that.

3.Relinquished their right to make separate treaties. And decide on their own form of government. And the power to make their own currency. And their right to determine their own borders. And their power to raise their own armies. And the supremacy of their state judiciary. And the power to make war. And their ability to tax imports into their state. And every other power that makes a sovereign country a sovereign country. Yet you insist that they were. Amazing.

No they did not relinquish their right to decide on their own form of government. The Constitution merely stated that a state must have a republican form of government. The Founders did not want states with tyrannical forms of government being in the voluntary union. If a state wanted to adopt a form of government other than a Republican one, they could not stay in the voluntary union.

State Judiciaries were very much supreme. Remember that the federal courts are courts of limited subject mater jurisdiction. State courts are courts of unlimited subject matter jurisdiction. No they did not give up “every other power that makes a sovereign country a sovereign country.

A 1 minute google search turned up a 1996 ruling in which the US Supreme Court affirmed once again that states are sovereign. Seminole Tribe of Florida v. State of Florida, 116 S. Ct. 1114 (1996). In Seminole, the Court held that, in light of the “background principle” of sovereign immunity that underlay the Eleventh Amendment, Congress has no power under the Commerce Clauses of Article I of the Constitution to subject the States to citizen suits in federal court without their consent.

Yet you try to claim states surrendered their sovereignty. Amazing.

4. Sigh. I will state it once again. Nowhere in the constitution does it say the federal government may prevent a state from seceding.

Here is the wording of the 10th amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Let’s see.....the power to prevent secession was NOT DELEGATED (notice the word delegated?) to the Uninted States. Therefore it is RESERVED to the states. Your argument of an implied grant of power to the US is null and void.

5. the only thing the 10th amendment does not say is “expressly”. That is literally the only word that is different from the test as you would have it. The burden of proof that this power was given to the federal government lies with those who would claim it was - ie you - not with the states which had this power from the start. If the states intended to delegated this power to the federal government, several of them would not have expressly reserved the right to secede. They would not have added the 10th amendment to the Bill of Rights making it clear that any powers not granted to it were reserved by the states.

The fact that a resolution for secession was not adopted says nothing about the fact that they thought it the right of each state. They simple did not choose to exercise it.

There is no evidence that they even seriously discussed it.

and I will repeat that Madison’s views about this which he expressed decades after ratification are not relevant.

Not to you at least. But I'll refer you, yet again, to his letter to Hamilton.

No they did not relinquish their right to decide on their own form of government. The Constitution merely stated that a state must have a republican form of government.

So no monarchy? No benevolent despotism? No parliamentarian form? Even if the state wanted one? How sovereign of them.

State Judiciaries were very much supreme. Remember that the federal courts are courts of limited subject mater jurisdiction.

But still supreme over state or local courts in matters that fall under their jurisdiction. And don't forget that federal law is supreme if and when state or local laws conflict with it. Subordinate to the federal government.

No they did not give up “every other power that makes a sovereign country a sovereign country.

They certainly did.

A 1 minute google search turned up a 1996 ruling in which the US Supreme Court affirmed once again that states are sovereign. Seminole Tribe of Florida v. State of Florida,

Next time spend more than a minute on your search. Or at least read the decision.

The power to prevent it is implied in Article I and Article IV. You can continue to repeat your nonsense about not specifically being prohibited and I'll repeat my contention that it is implied. We can do this all night.

That is literally the only word that is different from the test as you would have it. The burden of proof that this power was given to the federal government lies with those who would claim it was - ie you - not with the states which had this power from the start.

And I've given my evidence time and time again.