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To: FLT-bird
Secession and declaring independence are the exact same thing.

Not by a long shot - unless your notions of words and their meanings is entirely fluid.

The states did not surrender their sovereignty.....ever.

Yes they did - when they ratified the United States Constitution.

They DELEGATED (important word....it’s what a superior does with a subordinate) certain powers only to the federal government.

You're so close - and still wrong! The states (individual) didn't delegate anything - they lack the power to do so. The States (collective) delegated powers to the federal government through the constitution. That's because the States (collective) is the federal government!

The States (collective) delegated the power to control the disposition of the states (individual) to the federal government vis-à-vis Congress. Congress determines who joins - and who leaves. The Supreme Court articulated that in Texas v. White.

Yes, joining the union is voluntary. But it isn't like a magazine subscription - you can't just say "Today I feel dissatisfied" and quit. With membership comes commitment and responsibilities. But once you commit to joining the union you are bound to that commitment. The only two ways out are bilateral agreement or revolution.

You are apparently big on rebellion.

121 posted on 03/30/2018 7:48:04 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rockrr

The two words mean the same thing.

States did not surrender their sovereignty. They only delegated certain powers. Read the federalist papers. Specifically #46 though several others say the same thing. I am quoting Madison and Hamilton - the Constitution’s two biggest proponents when I use the term delegate and “limited powers” and describe the states as sovereign.

The states collectively are not the federal government. It is an entirely different entity.

States can leave if they wish. The union is voluntary and based on consent. That’s how it was founded. Might does not make right.

Trying to rely on Texas V White to support your argument is a joke. Did anybody expect them to rule against the federal government after it had just fought a bloody war? The justices of the court would not have survived 24 hours if they had ruled that way....never mind that Chief Justice Salmon P Chase issued the ruling that the then treasury secretary was entirely in the right......a certain Salmon P Chase. Yes! Look it up if you doubt it. This was just an ex pist facto “might makes right” attempt at justifying the unconstitutional war they had already started and fought at great cost.

You are apparently big on oppression and tyranny.


122 posted on 03/30/2018 8:13:39 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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