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To: Cboldt
Still cannot get to Cornell but I looked it up on Wiki.

The Supreme Court upheld the prior rulings in the case, holding that the wiretaps were an unconstitutional violation of the Fourth Amendment and as such must be disclosed to the defense.

Sounds like it does not pertain. Would you close the loop on why you believe it to be germane?

The abuses predate Nixon.

No dispute from me, but the FISA was signed by Carter in 1978.

Long, but concise,

Over 400 pages is concise??? Looks to be a commission based upon acts committed, by-in-large, by the Johnson administration. Would not surprise me. That man was evil.

42 posted on 02/05/2018 12:24:18 PM PST by rjsimmon (The Tree of Liberty Thirsts)
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To: rjsimmon
You have to read the Keith case and understand a bit of law to get the point. I'll try to summarize.

The Keith case is a criminal prosecution, so the 4th amendment applies. The holding you quoted pertains in that (criminal prosecution) context.

Within the Keith case is considerable discussion that the executive has certain surveillance power that is unrelated to criminal law. That is the FISA angle. Foreign intelligence vs. criminal. In many cases, totally separate; in many cases, overlapping.

Some cherry-picked excerpts, the last one being more or less, "Congress might want to pass a law." It did. FISA.

On the basis of the Attorney General's affidavit and the sealed exhibit, the Government asserted that the surveillance was lawful, though conducted without prior judicial approval ...

[Referring to part of 18 USC 2511] At most, this is an implicit recognition that the President does have certain powers in the specified areas. Few would doubt this, as the section refers -- among other things -- to protection "against actual or potential attack or other hostile acts of a foreign power." But so far as the use of the President's electronic surveillance power is concerned, the language [of the statute] is essentially neutral. ...

The [Congressional] debate above explicitly indicates that nothing in S: 2511(3) was intended to expand or to contract or to define whatever presidential surveillance powers existed in matters affecting the national security. ...

Further, the instant case requires no judgment on the scope of the President's surveillance power with respect to the activities of foreign powers, within or without this country. ...

Given these potential distinctions between Title III criminal surveillances and those involving the domestic security, Congress may wish to consider protective standards for the latter which differ from those already prescribed for specified crimes in Title III.

-- Over 400 pages is concise? --

Compared with the underlying facts and cases, yep.

43 posted on 02/05/2018 12:43:18 PM PST by Cboldt
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