Thanks for responding so maybe we could have a conversation about this
Why would I respond? ..... why would I even read the rest of your post?
My question about that was twofold, not just this, but more so a reference to the last thread about opioids where I was still a little bent about your minimizing response and then non response... all I can say beyond the anecdotal evidence I provided in that thread that you ignored, is it must be nice to not have a clue what dealing with chronic pain is like. I have had back pain since my teen years, my mom would come in and ask why I was sleeping on the floor.
As far as where you say your opinions have been formed, to have a real conversation, I would have to know how you feel about a couple other legal drugs that are proven to cause harm and kill thousands of Americans every year and let me know if you are or were a cigarette smoker or drink any form of alcohol. Personally I would put Marijuana in the classification of another legal harmless drug that also comes from a plant... called Caffine... Are you a coffee drinker?? I am not, lets ban that too! /sarc
Marijuana has been classified as a "gateway" drug. I do not know how strong the evidence is, but the concept of marijuana as a gateway drug does fit the model of drug addiction.
I am fairly sure for some people that try marijuana first, it would be considered a gateway drug because they moved on and tried something else... but that said, nothing else I know of is even relative in the high it produces. That high is similar to the relaxation somebody feels from drinking a couple beers, or climbing in a hot bath and relaxing... beyond that, its a feeling in your eyes like you are tired. It is not a upward high unless the Marijuana is a sativa strain, then its more like drinking a few cups of coffee.
All I really know to do is tell you my story... Personally Alcohol was my gateway drug growing up in rural Oregon, but then we moved to yuppie northern California, Marin County to be exact, and they did not even do weed, those parties were beer and cocaine in the mid 80s... Weed just mellowed out that high... I tried it wanting to fit in, but that shit was not for me. I did try MJ at some point and again not for me, it was nothing... I got a better headrush taking a dip of Kodiak chewing tobacco and I sure loved beer! Somebody had a keg party every weekend... I graduated high school and the following weekend my dad drove me to Phoenix to start tech school to learn drafting, 10 days after graduating. Wow how lucky for me, Arizona's drinking age was 18... Dad left and I walked to the store, bought a dozen eggs and a 12 pack of beer... That got me to
this point real quick. During that month (did you follow the link?) I smoked in a few social situations instead of drinking. At some point in the future I realized when I smoked, I did not notice my back pain, like after I sneezed it out of place and was in bed for 3 or 4 days... It really showed when I went away and did not travel with weed, and could not bend over or walk by the time we got home... 20 years ago, my wife and I both believed I would be in a wheel chair by the time I was 40... The only thing I have ever been to the doctor for since I got out of school was stitches once, kidney stones once and a carpel tunnel test after 25 years using a mouse 8-16 hours a day. I have had the same drafting career my whole life, worked for three different employers besides being self employed the past few years. I averaged a dollar an hour raise every year of my career until things collapsed in 2008... not sure how much evidence you need that weed does not have to be what you think it is, none of the people I deal with on a daily basis ever have a clue I used marijuana. When things collapsed in 2008, I needed that income level and worked foreclosure cleanouts 80-100 hours a week to make ends meet until I could reduce my debt, then that ended and my wife and I scraped by on about 10K a year doing literally anything I could do legally to make money, drawing provided most of my work the last couple years, until last year when I magically got busy again. So for a few years there, we had no money to spend on marijuana... I did not go rob people to buy it, we went without... I got to the point where I could barely bend over and tie my shoes when somebody recommended I try CBD oil... That was the key... It somehow acts as a lubrication in my joints (the ones between my bones that is) and now that is what I use mostly. I did get my card when Arizona legalized medically a few years ago and at the time we could grow it ourselves because there were no dispensaries... So I grew it and really enjoyed that as a hobby and I started smoking again, then they took grow rights away and you had to go pay $400/oz to buy it, so back to the CBD. I missed growing it more than smoking it honestly... If the feds would get out of the way, I would quit drawing and go into that industry and quit drawing... If I work more than 8 hours a day, my arm aches really bad, if I continue working like that the pain will go all the way down my leg and I cant even hardly walk a week later... I found a tens unit on my arm when the pain starts up will allow me to work. I would much rather be a simple farmer.
My question about that was twofold, not just this, but more so a reference to the last thread about opioids where I was still a little bent about your minimizing response and then non response... all I can say beyond the anecdotal evidence I provided in that thread that you ignored, is it must be nice to not have a clue what dealing with chronic pain is like. I have had back pain since my teen years, my mom would come in and ask why I was sleeping on the floor. I would love to know what a life without chronic pain would be like, but I do not have that luxury. At this moment, my back hurts, my right arm and shoulder hurt, and my feet are aching in the bones. Pain is a constant for me. I have arthritis, and I have broken a few bones which remain forever painful. And I take nothing. For the most part, I use exercises that I learned in physical therapy, to strengthen the muscles around the joints so that there is less strain in the joints. Only when the pain is really bad do I take anything--ibuprofen. That's all. I've taken opiates, such as when I broke my arm. The opiates barely touched the pain, and the side effects--including a headache that felt like a railroad tie was being pounded into my head--are enough to dissuade me from ever taking opiates again.
As far as where you say your opinions have been formed, to have a real conversation, I would have to know how you feel about a couple other legal drugs that are proven to cause harm and kill thousands of Americans every year and let me know if you are or were a cigarette smoker or drink any form of alcohol. Personally I would put Marijuana in the classification of another legal harmless drug that also comes from a plant... called Caffine... Are you a coffee drinker?? I am not, lets ban that too!
You can't lump every substance together. I have yet to hear of anyone ever causing an automobile accident because they were under the influence of tobacco or caffeine. No one has ever become mean and violent because they imbibed a little too much coffee. I know that a favorite tact of pro-marijuana users is to say, "But what about [insert other substance of choice here]?" with the intent of trying to make marijuana look safe by comparison. The problem is, though, that marijuana is not safe. The more medical research is done on it, the more the dangers of use are being revealed and documented. Marijuana causes certain neurological cell types to die. Marijuana causes damage to certain structures in the brain. Marijuana reduces peoples' initiative and ambition, so that they do not feel motivated to do much at all beyond seek their next high. People who use marijuana before their brains are fully developed (i.e. before age 25) can become psychotic. And so on. On top of that, the psychoactive compounds in marijuana are fat soluble and are metabolized only very slowly, meaning that the exposure to these compounds is prolonged--which is problematic when considering questions of toxicity and carcinogenicity. In contrast, alcohol is rapidly metabolized by the body, at a rate of about one drink per hour (the rate is affected by body size). That means that if you have a glass of wine with dinner, it is metabolized by the time you go to bed. And so on.
Finally, your story about your experiences with mind-altering substances tells me that it really would not have mattered which mind-altering substance you used first. You happened to use alcohol first, so that was your gateway. If you had used marijuana first, that would have been your gateway. Some people are genetically predisposed to become addicted. I read about a man who was told that he had genes that are associated with addiction, and his response was to avoid ever engaging in behavior that might cause him to become addicted. No alcohol, no opioid pain killers, nothing. He didn't want to become an addict.