Ex-Officer Found Not Guilty in Killing of Daniel Shaver

TMZ ^ | December 7, 2017 | Staff

[Brooklyn Attitude]

“The woman’s purse was in the way. He...did what? He was crying with fear (and with good reason), required to look directly at the ground and not ahead, encountered an obstacle, and...so he died.”

Can’t say he wasn’t warned. Cop told him exactly what would happen if he did what he did. I wouldn’t have handled it that way but I’m not a cop, don’t have the training and my butt wasn’t on the line.

[Mr Rogers]

Yeah, he was warned. But someone should have told the cop that reflexes can’t be 100% controlled. And if the cop had hesitated a half second, it would have been obvious the guy was NOT going for a gun.

If Rodney King resisted arrest today, he’d be shot 40 times. In THAT case, it might even qualify as a good shoot. But this was macho cop getting a chance to kill. Not a good cop without any other options.

“King grabbed his buttocks, which Officer Melanie Singer took to mean King was reaching for a weapon, though he was later found to be unarmed. She drew her pistol and pointed it at King, ordering him to lie on the ground. Singer approached, gun drawn, preparing to effect an arrest.

At that point LAPD Sergeant Stacey Koon, the ranking officer at the scene, told Singer that the LAPD was taking tactical command of the situation. He ordered all officers to holster their weapons.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King

I wonder how much of the shoot immediately posture has developed because of what happens if someone videos a cop trying to arrest someone without shooting them?

[Brooklyn Attitude]

“Yeah, he was warned. But someone should have told the cop that reflexes can’t be 100% controlled. And if the cop had hesitated a half second, it would have been obvious the guy was NOT going for a gun.”

If you encounter an obstacle and you start to fall forward, your reflex isn’t to reach behind you.

[FreeFromWhat]

He was pulling up his pants, which were falling down behind him. It was an instinct. The officer had been playing Simon says with the poor guy at gunpoint for several minutes before the shooting and the guy obeyed every single ridiculous command, some of which were contradictory.

Isn’t it enough that this officer was acquitted in court? Do people really have to defend him in public?

[Mr Rogers]

"If you encounter an obstacle and you start to fall forward, your reflex isn’t to reach behind you."

Went back and played in in slow motion. This screen capture is imperfect, but seems to have been when the "shoot" decision was made. Taken totally by itself, and not as part of the scenario (crawling while terrified, with his legs crossed)...maybe.

He also had encountered the purse, and might be off balance. I've never tried crawling with my legs crossed. But again, a half second later, it was obvious the guy was empty handed.

Unless you are spring-loaded to shoot, wait the extra half-second. I did 40 years ago and it meant I didn't shoot anyone - as a non-cop. But non-cops are held to a HIGHER STANDARD than cops are. And I had a T-shirt on that day, not body armor. And I was alone and outnumbered. But I hesitated.

I get the feeling that a lot of 'force on force' training is geared to teach "Don't hesitate!" But not hesitating killed a totally innocent guy. I find it unacceptable that while I would face consequences as a CCW civilian, cops do not.

Take into account the total scenario. What does it take to draw a gun? I've practiced in front of a mirror, so maybe that is why I was confident the guy was NOT going for a gun. It isn't like the movies. To draw a gun, you need to get hold of the gun. Take into account the guy's behavior while crawling.

Heck, if nothing else, get and use body armor for situations like that. What I saw in the video was a rush to fire. In combat, we expect people to go in "harm's way". Cops need to as well. At a minimum, they should be held to at least as high a standard as a non-cop would be held.

[FreeFromWhat]

Also the cop needs to learn basic English. He clearly ordered the victim to “crawl” towards him and then freaked out when the victim did just that.

[Brooklyn Attitude]

“I get the feeling that a lot of ‘force on force’ training is geared to teach “Don’t hesitate!” But not hesitating killed a totally innocent guy. I find it unacceptable that while I would face consequences as a CCW civilian, cops do not.”

Maybe 15 or 20 years ago there was concern that “hesitation” was getting cops killed. They implemented changes in training using shoot/no shoot video scenarios. The message seemed to be that even someone who doesn’t look dangerous can kill you. You have to be ready to pull the trigger instantly. My guess is that mindset has only gotten worse.

“It isn’t like the movies. To draw a gun, you need to get hold of the gun. Take into account the guy’s behavior while crawling.”

Agreed. I went through my quick draw phase several decades ago and at my best could draw and fire three rounds into a chest sized target at 7 yds in about a second. Watching myself in a mirror it looked slow as heck compared to what you see on TV.

[WatchungEagle]

Cold blooded murder. This is one of the worst ones, but many, many other police shooting video show a similar dynamic: Police clearly itching to kill and looking for any excuse to shoot as they issue bizarre orders and drag out the tensest part of an arrest as long they can rather than just quickly moving to cuff a surrendering suspect.

[nonliberal]

Agreed. Instead of walking free, this cop should have a needle in his arm.

[nonliberal]

That should be called “premeditation.” Murder one.

[southern rock]

Definitely pre-meditated murder. We can just hope that now, with the release of the video, that the cop’s life is made miserable from here on out.

[southern rock]

When an officer has to respond to a “man with gun” call, they must be extremely on edge.

No sympathy for them being "on edge". That is their job. They need to handle it without using torture tactics and then shooting unarmed people in cold blood.

This poor guy was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, way too nervous and probably drunk, but boy did he mess up when he turned around.

He didn't "mess up" and he wasn't in the "wrong place". He was murdered.

[heartwood]

Crawling was pulling his pants down. He tried to pull them up.

[Dick Bachert]

[NorthMountain]

Once again:

The police need to police themselves, or they will be policed. And they won't like it.

This piece of shit should have been fired the day he showed up with that obscene threat engraved on his rifle. Probably sooner. Now, an innocent man is dead ... and the unconvicted murderer is on the loose. How many more innocent people will he kill? How many more psychotic killers are out there wearing cop uniforms, itching for an opportunity to kill? Why are the so-called "good cops" not rooting them out?

Clean up your act, cops. You still have a chance to do it yourselves.

[Toespi]

Terrible. Seems to me there were plenty of opportunities for the police to completely disable him and put him in handcuffs. It looks to me like they were intentionally toying with him, just waiting for him to make a fatal mistake.