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To: DiogenesLamp

Arsenals were not abandoned.

It was clearly an insurrection. There is no constitutional provision for state conventions to declare an end to the Union. The constitution is the ruling document, not the Declaration. It was settled in 1787 that there was NO conditional ratification and no right to leave without constitutional authority.

There was no threat to any Slaver right except the right to be a slaver. All other claims are just attempts to disguise the real issue.

The Confederacy ATTACKED federal institutions. This ensured a war.

Slavery would have continued for some time but would have been legally removed at some point in keeping with the gradual elimination underway since 1808. This could have taken many forms. It would have cost less to just buy the slaves’ freedom and manumit them.

The North fought to preserve the Union, the South to preserve slavery.


104 posted on 08/01/2017 11:52:07 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Check out "CHAOS AND MAYHEM" at Amazon.com)
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To: arrogantsob
The constitution is the ruling document, not the Declaration.

The Declaration is the document from which the Constitution draws it's own legitimacy. The child cannot exist without the parent.

It was settled in 1787 that there was NO conditional ratification and no right to leave without constitutional authority.

You cannot "settle" God's law. According to the Declaration, God grants the right to independence, not men.

If you are going to argue that men have authority to set a "perpetual allegiance" requirement, then so too did the British men who set such a requirement over every British Subject.

We must either reject it all, or we must accept it all. You cannot have half of one thing and half of the other. The two things are based on mutually exclusive principles.

There was no threat to any Slaver right except the right to be a slaver. All other claims are just attempts to disguise the real issue.

The real issue is whether the nation was founded on the principle that people have a right to independence or not. The issue is *NOT* slavery. The Founders were slavers too, but this didn't stop them from declaring a right to independence. Slavery is just a red herring meant to distract attention away from the true focus of this debate.

The Confederacy ATTACKED federal institutions. This ensured a war.

The Confederacy responded in the only manner possible to the notice given them that a War Fleet had sailed from New York with the intentions of opening fire on them. When a bigger man swings at you, you have to try to beat him to the punch.

Slavery would have continued for some time but would have been legally removed at some point in keeping with the gradual elimination underway since 1808.

There were 11 Confederate States and 5 Union states that practiced slavery. Assuming all would vote "No", In order to create a constitutional amendment by having enough states to produce a 3/4ths majority, you would have to have 64 states in the Union.

Even with only the 11th states of the Confederacy, it would have required 44 states to create an amendment overturning slavery. The earliest possible point at which that could happen was 1890, which was 28 years later. (from 1861)

So it was completely impossible for the Union to get rid of slavery (except by the extortion method they used) for 28 more years. Realistically, probably more like another 100 years.

So why get on the moral high horse about slavery when the Union was going to keep it going for the foreseeable future?

The North fought to preserve the Union, the South to preserve slavery.

That's just propaganda. The South was going to keep slavery if it had remained in the Union, so they weren't fighting *FOR* something the Union was already giving them, they were fighting for something the Union refused to give them.

It's called "Independence", and according to the Declaration of Independence, it is a right granted by God, not men.

The Union invaded them, and the People fought to expel the invaders from their homeland. It's that simple.

106 posted on 08/01/2017 12:54:23 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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