Posted on 04/27/2017 4:41:12 AM PDT by SJackson
If you'd like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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I suspect the number of Jews who could have fled or been relocated to Israel over nearly a decade would have exceeded 200,000. It's also worth noting that it was the UK's obligation to resettle Jews in the Jewish Homeland. A charge they accepted from the League of Nations and which they failed in at the cost of many lives.
I do think the author is correct that Churchill's motivation was political, FDR's antisemitism. Jews in Israel would not subvert American culture as Jews developing the atomic bomb presumably did.
As to FDR's support for restricting Jewish employment in professional positions in North Africa, it's interesting to note that the Sultan of Morocco refused to do the same thing under pressure from Vichy.
You Must Remember This: Sultan of Morocco Mohammed V protected the Jews of Casablanca.
I honestly just don’t “get” antisemitism.
why would anyone “hate” the jews?
why? what do they do to anyone? so ... we disagree on exactly who Jesus was.. big deal!
dig deep enough and you disagree with everyone on just about anything!
They are usually productive citizens who are not prone to violence or crime. They don’t “push” their religion on anyone. In fact, for the most part they just seem to keep to themselves for the most part trying to live their lives the best they can.
What the heck!?
So true.
http://www.martingilbert.com/blog/winston-churchill-and-the-foundation-of-israel
https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/03/09/yes-churchill-really-was-a-friend-of-jews-and-zionism/
From the second link:
After the War Cabinet overrode Churchill by deciding to discourage illegal Jewish immigration to Palestine, Churchill devised a policy that bypassed it, by permitting all Jews who might arrive in Palestine to stay there. One result was that, in early 1944, 6,000 Jews from Romania and Bessarabia were permitted to proceed to Palestine on British passports.
and
Indeed, such was the perception of Churchills solicitude for Jews among officials that, on at least two occasions, callous members of his own inner staff withheld from him Jewish requests out of fear that he would respond positively to them.
Churchill in his personal sentiment was a Semito-phile (did I just invent a word?). On the other hand, though he was reluctant to sign the White Paper, and railed against it while an MP, in the end he did so, and instructed the Foreign Office to enforce it rigorously, using lend-lease equipment from the US meant to fight Hitler.
The Moroccan royal family has been a friend to Jews for centuries.
One my political epiphamys happened when the FDR memorial was being planned. I realised that leftists see others, even their own as only a way to further a political cause. There was a huge debate about whether he should be depicted in a wheelchair, centered around what would benefit this or that cause. Not once did I hear any concern about what FDR would have wanted.
I have a theory.Satan loves to see as many dead Jews as possible.The Jews are God’s chosen people and as such receive a special level of wrath from the devil.He manipulates people like Roosevelt to get the highest body count possible.
In the context of the US Congress moving to cut off immigration of Jews into the US (under the GOP) beginning shortly after WWI, FDR’s actions shouldn’t be a surprise.
Second-guessing is too easy. Putting America first should be the instinct of American political leaders.
This is just progressivism at work. This is who progressives are.
I’m with you guys. The Jews I know and have worked with are bright, hard working and have a good sense of humor and in most cases are not arrogant but quite humble about their acievements.
Most were scientists and engineers and we got along well. We were even able to discuss my Christian religion and theirs openly and honestly.
I don’t get the hate.
That being said, the Northeastern establishment of that era was uncomfortable with the social advancement of Jews and, to a lesser extent, Catholics. FDR remarked to Leo Crowley, an Irish Catholic who was the chairman of the FDIC, that Catholics and Jews existed in America at the sufferance of the Protestant majority. The Wall Street financial powers that be allowed a Jewish-owned bank, the Bank of the United States, fail even as they helped other financial institutions in liquidity crises. The Northeastern elite were willing to have Catholic dominated political machines control the large cities and to have Jews enter retail businesses and the professions, so long as their suburban and central city enclaves, their private schools, Ivy League Colleges, and their corporate and financial interests remained in their hands.
That world was the one from which FDR came. They were uncomfortable with Jews and Catholics on a social level, but they were not driven to master race beliefs or fantasies about Jesuit or Zionist plots.
JEWS ARE LIBERTY HATING SOCIALISTS
90% of Jews vote Big Government leftist socialism.
No group should be murdered but groups behavior should be held accountable. South America is a better fit for socialists, not the USA.
That is just the facts.
Apologists say that sometimes ‘only’ 75% of Jews now are socialists. Only 75% socialist! AAHHH!
It has NOTHING to do with Christ or God.
When Jews turns it around and 3/4 vote pro liberty, then bring them in. But liberty lovers do need some place on this Earth free of socialists.
About Churchill: Here are a couple of more quotes from the link I posted above:
● As First Lord of the Admiralty (1939-40), Churchill instructed Royal Navy vessels not to intercept ships suspected of bringing illegal Jewish immigrants to Palestine.
● In February 1942, Churchill argued successfully in the War Cabinet and in the face of opposition from the new Colonial Secretary, Lord Moyne to release from internment approximately 800 Jewish refugees from the Darien II, who had reached Palestine.
● That same year, Churchill overrode Foreign Office objections to a proposal for permitting 5,000 Bulgarian Jewish children to travel to Palestine. (The War Cabinet approved, but the move was blocked by German pressure applied on Bulgaria).
But the British FO and the Secret Service were ever since oil became important for the RN very Arabophile. That together with the "social Antisemitism" (see Wallace T, post 12) of the British establishment made it very hard for Churchill to push through his pro-Jewish policy.
Lots of minority groups vote in mass for Democrats. That is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about the long history of hatred for the Jews. Not just in the US but worldwide.
It honestly (to me) makes no sense what-so-ever.
Why hate the Jews more than, say... Hindu’s ? Hindu’s are FAR further from Christianity than Judaism, and yet... I see no historical hatred of the Hindu’s. No effort to wipe Hindu’s off the face of the Earth, ect.
It has to be something else besides the religious disagreement.
Are people jealous? is it a class envy thing? like the poor here in America hate the rich in general? are people put off by their tendency to be sort of clickish?
Yeah I get that many here in America are mad that the Jews support liberals mostly.. but so do the blacks, and I don’t see anyone advocating the killing of all blacks because most vote democratic.
You have to read the folks who were anti-Semitic and the periods in which they lived to understand it. Not modern sources that present comic book explanations, but the actual texts written at the time to understand how such occured. Further to understand why particular hate arose, you must understand why folks saw Jews as threats, which you will not get unless you read both sides of the conflict and try to look at the world they way they did, rather than the modern American mind set.
Oddly enough once you see the pattern once, you will see the same pattern repeat again and again throughout history, though the exact timeline and final outcome varies somewhat.
Three easily researched periods and one less easy but given the current middle east situation worth understanding.:
Northern Germany 1638 to 1945 (special attention to 1916 to 1945):
England 1066 to 1290 (special attention paid to 1215 to 1290)
Poland 1085 to 1795, there are actually many cycles in that time, each one getting worse for the Jews but very instructive, as golden ages such as 1264 to 1295, 1332 to 1349 and 1385 to 1407 alternated with periods of repression due to various reasons.
Persia: 722 BC to 323 BC (special attention to 530 to 432 BC) The Persian sources are hard to find in English, but if you try hard enough you can find them on the net.
I did a little research based on your recommendations and I think I understand the origin of the hatred a little better.
Basically it mostly stims from usury.
And the poor Jews got a two fer from it.
The church taught that usury was sinful from the pews, and it’s fairly normal to resent those you owe money too.
Since Jews were the only group basically allow to charge interest they got despised by both groups. Plus killing the person you owe money or driving them out of town, ect has the benefit of wiping out your debt!
It’s no wonder in hindsight why the Jews have been so singled out for hatred as compared to other groups.
Thanks for the information.
Every bomb dropped with the goal of slowing Auschwitz would be a bomb diverted from winning the war.
Also, it was not just a matter of "OK, today we'll bomb Auschwitz, tomorrow we'll get back to bombing refineries, or factories, or whatever". It was not unheard-of to lose 20% of the attacking bombers in a single mission.
So then the Struma was quarantined, towed out to sea and possibly deliberately sunk over Churchill’s objections? It seems there was a large intra-cabinet rift that the government was actively ignoring.
The US war aims in Europe had nothing to do with the Jews, whether they were saved or weren’t was a matter of indifference to the administration, and to accuse FDR of failing to do something that he had no responsibility for and no interest in is extreme post hoc argumentation.
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