United Airlines Was Right, and Its Numerous Critics Wrong

RCM ^ | 04/18/2017 | John Tamney

[Political Junkie Too]

UAL is going to argue that they were required by law to move that flight crew. And thus they were required to take people off the plane.

I would like to hear that argument.

I don't think there are "laws" requiring a flight to occur. It was a business decision to eject one saver passenger to protect the potential lost revenue of an entire future flight. And there is no guarantee that future weather conditions wouldn't have delayed or canceled THAT flight when the time came.

The only "laws" that I can think of are the union rules regarding the method of transporting the crew and the duration of time they can log as "working" versus "resting." From what I've seen, transporting the crew via limousine to Louisville would not have counted as union "rest," and would have still made the crew ineligible to fly the next day.

-PJ

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

UAL is going to argue that they were required by law to move that flight crew. And thus they were required to take people off the plane. United will say they had nothing to do with the security guards who showed up, and no choice.

The plaintiff's lawyer will counter that, while this may be true, there's nothing in the law, nor United's Contract of Carriage, which states they needed to use that particular flight to move the crew when there are many other choices of transportation available.

Again, the plaintiff's lawyer will counter that it was United, themselves, who set the chain of events into motion by calling the security in the first place.

[LibertyOh]

“I would not have gave up my seat other wise but for fear of arrest.”

Statistically it should never happen to you again, but with all the news this has generated and education about the contract now available, if you are in the situation again you can just sit back and say no - unless they actually threaten arrest and then you must comply. Of course a law enforcement officer would be an absolute fool to arrest someone after this debacle.

[SkyDancer]

You had your seat bought and paid for. You are sitting in it. What right does an airline have to forcibly remove you from your seat and give it to someone else? What would happen if I sold 1200 condo apartments but only had 1000?

[MNDude]

Man, if he takes from seven digits, I’ll probably be laying down in the aisles in United next!

[chaosagent]

According to Part 21 - Refusal To Transport of the CoC’s, there are 19 specific reason you can ‘re-accommodate’ a passenger after he has been seated, i.e., drunk, rowdy, barefoot, smelly, blind, etc.

Needing his seat for a company employee isn’t one of the 19.

[Theoria]

What they eat in regulations 'we' counter in subsidized security and airports, airline bailouts,etc. They get off pretty good on this one.

[NobleFree]

No, the supersaver ticket did not have a different contract of carriage, it was just bought at a different time when the free market price allowed the passenger to save money. Likely limitations on cancelling the ticket or changing the reservation, but “reservation for space” was not disadvantaged, and once he was boarded United could only remove him for violations of its Rule 21, not even argued by United.

Thanks for clearing that up. It's amazing how many lies have been run up the pro-United flagpole.

[dancusa]

Fed regs give airlines no flexibilty on a deal.

They have a federal regulation on the max payout. 800 dollars?

[Wallace T.]

The passenger may have been a jerk, but airline executives and employees tend to forget that the traveling public by and large hates air travel. Airlines are a classical case of an oligopoly in a heavily regulated industry. There are a lot of factors to blame for the unpleasant nature of air travel: Federal overregulation, front office arrogance, and union rules. United is among the worst offenders. The situation does not change, irrespective of which party is in the White House or is the majority in Congress.

Remember that common people who resented the oligarchy in power had a quiet resentment that manifested itself last year in the defeat of the establishment candidates, Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, by the self-proclaimed outsider, Donald Trump. United Airlines is a recipient of the same sort of popular revolt that doomed Jeb and Hillary. Whether this incident will be forgotten in a month or will lead the airline into bankruptcy or merger remains to be seen.

[Fantasywriter]

So sad that the author of the article has no access to a search engine:

UNITED CEO: ‘This can never, will never happen again on a United Airlines flight’

Bob Bryan Apr. 12, 2017, 8:02 AM 42,036

United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz.AP

UAL United Contl

In an interview with GMA, Munoz said he apologized to the passenger —identified Tuesday as Dr. David Dao — and promised that nothing similar would happen on a United Airlines flight again.

“The first thing that I think is important to say is to apologize to Dr. Dao, his family, the passengers on that flight, our customers, our employees — that is not who our family at United is,” Munoz said. “You saw us at a bad moment, and this can never, will never happen again on a United Airlines flight. That’s my premise, and that’s my promise.”

snip

“No, he can’t be,” Munoz said when asked whether Dao was at fault in any way. “He was a paying passenger sitting on our seat, in our aircraft, and no one should be treated that way.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/united-airlines-ceo-oscar-munoz-apology-david-dao-good-morning-america-2017-4

[taxcontrol]

I agree.

Law enforcement could have said, you are now down to two options.

option 1, you leave on your own power and can then seek what ever redress you desire

-OR-

Option 2, you leave under arrest and face criminal charges.
This is the default option and if you do not leave on your own power, by the time you are asked to leave for the third time, you will be automatically processed under option 2.

How would you like to proceed?

[AlaskaErik]

Stupid read. United lost in the court of public opinion. And it will also lose in the courtroom, should Dao’s case make it that far (it probably won’t. United will be much better off just settling). Delta was smart enough to drastically raise the amount of compensation that will be offered in the future. I seriously doubt that bidding will ever reach the top amount of approximately $10,000. And if it does, it will be so infrequently as to have virtually no impact on the bottom line. And it will certainly be cheaper than a four or five percent stock devaluation, the PR nightmare, the loss of customers and the inevitable lawsuits.

[Political Junkie Too]

What would happen if I sold 1200 condo apartments but only had 1000?

Hey, let's ask Jim Bakker!

-PJ

[lacrew]

"it’s worth pointing out that the airline did the right thing in removing the obnoxious passenger from the plane."

Somebody has a conflicting point of view...a guy by the name of Oscar Munoz...ceo of an airline I believe.

Of course United didn't do the right thing. The 'right thing' for United is to perpetuate their business and maximize profits. I guarantee that this entire incident will do the exact opposite.

[poinq]

United has ticked off customers for decades. They are a horrible service company. It does not matter if the Doctor was not in the right. The fire storm is not about him. Its about the rest of us. We have been mistreated by United or we have watched United mistreat people. That is why the fire storm happened.

[Cruising Speed]

UAL is going to argue that they were required by law to move that flight crew. And thus they were required to take people off the plane.

They could have rented a Cessna or booked seats on a rival airline.

[Fantasywriter]

There are literally too many errors in your post to correct. Who has that kind of time?

[Cboldt]

There is no limit on how much can be offered for "voluntary" denial of boarding.

Porbably some airlines use the cap on compensation for involuntary denial of boarding as an excuse to cap their voluntary offers, but there is no cap on the voluntary offers.

Delta says it will pay passengers up to nearly $10,000 to leave seats on overbooked flights

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Option 2, you leave under arrest and face criminal charges.
This is the default option and if you do not leave on your own power, by the time you are asked to leave for the third time, you will be automatically processed under option 2.

Out of curiosity, exactly what criminal charges would he be facing?