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Is Alabama's school employee-student sex law constitutional? A judge will decide
Huntsville Times ^ | 4/4/17 | Ashley Remkus

Posted on 04/04/2017 4:17:29 PM PDT by markomalley

After hearing oral arguments this afternoon about the constitutionality of Alabama's law prohibiting school employees from having sex with students, Morgan County Circuit Judge Glenn Thompson said he has "a lot of reading to do."

Thompson said he needs to study written arguments that previously were submitted before he rules on whether the law is unconstitutional. 

The question of constitutionality is being raised by defense attorneys for a former Decatur High School teacher and an ex-aid who worked at Falkville High School. Both schools are in Morgan County.

Carrie Witt, 43, taught history, psychology and social studies and coached girls' golf and junior varsity cheer at Decatur High. David Solomon, 26, was a contract aid at Falkville High. Each was charged in March 2016 with a class B felony on accusations they had sexual relationships with students under the age of 19. In both cases, authorities have said the students had surpassed the age of consent, which is 16. But according to a 2010 Alabama law, consent is not a defense. 

If convicted, the teachers face up to 20 years in prison for each count. They also would be required to register as sex offenders.

The main arguments of the defense, which were presented to the judge today by attorney Robert Tuten, is that the law is too broad and singles out teachers and other school employees for prosecution that other adults do not face. Tuten is one of two attorneys representing Witt, but he made arguments on behalf of both cases.

The law, Tuten argued, doesn't not specify student-teacher sex as illegal, but rather says school employees can't have sexual relationships with students. In that case, Tuten said, a janitor or groundskeeper could be charged with a felony for having sex with a student. Such employees do not necessarily maintain control or authority over students, Tuten said.

Winfield Sinclair, an assistant attorney in the Alabama Attorney General's Office, arguing on behalf of the state, defended to the law.

"We expect a student to obey any school official about school rules," Sinclair said, rebutting Tuten's janitor example.

Tuten compared the law to previous statutes that outlawed interracial marriage and same-sex relationships. In those cases, he said, the courts have ruled, "You can't legislate morality."

Tuten told the judge he isn't admitting any wrong doing on behalf of his client or advocating for relationships between teachers and students. But he argued the law in unnecessary because other laws prohibit crimes like forcible rape, sexual misconduct, statutory rape and sexual abuse -- without singling out school employees.

Sinclair told the judge other figures of authority, including jailers, corrections officers and probation officers also are prohibited by law from having sex with certain people -- inmates and clients. In those situations consent is not a defense, either. Sinclair also cited Alabama's laws against incest, which also do not allow consent as a defense.

The school employee-student sex law, Sinclair argued, is designed specifically to protect victims from a potential abuse of power. Students, who are required to attend school from ages 6-17, should be focused only on education -- not breakups, jealousy, potentially angry parents, being singled out by a teacher or whether they are being groomed by a teacher for sex, Sinclair told the judge.

Parents, Sinclair said, should be able to send their children to school knowing "the teacher is not replenishing their dating pool."

When asked by Judge Thompson, Sinclair said lawmakers in 2016 amended the 2010 law to exclude college students from the statute's protection. When the law was initially passed, there was no specification about whether the ruling applied to college students and workers.

However, Tuten noted the defendants were charged before the law was amended.

Thompson also questioned Sinclair about whether the students have to attend the same school as the employee for a crime to be committed. Sinclair said the law does not specify.

Attorney James Mason, who represents Solomon, told Thompson he didn't need to add anything to Tuten's argument. Mason asked the judge to consider a written brief that was submitted on behalf of his client.

Thompson said the ruling, which he will issue later, will apply to both cases because the arguments and issues are essentially the same.

"There's no way I can announce anything today," Thompson said. "I've got a lot of reading to do."



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: guiltyquestionmark; naughtyteachers; needpictures
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WTH???
1 posted on 04/04/2017 4:17:29 PM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

WTF is right!

That this is even a debatable issue is just wrong on so many levels.

The absolute LAST thing I would want to see is letting teachers use the schools as their own personal “meat market” to satisfy their own perversions.

Teachers molesting students needs to be an instant felony with serious prison time and permanent sex offender status.


2 posted on 04/04/2017 4:27:14 PM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it. MAGA!)
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To: markomalley

Not middle or high school.

College.

Before you say “these people are old and students are young”, or whatever. Think that not all college students are just out of high school, and not all professors and TA’s and admin are all different age groups. People go back to college at 40 too. So what if they got married to a professor or TA, or some other faculty member? They can’t have sex? What?


3 posted on 04/04/2017 4:27:21 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Somebody has to step forward and do what is right because it is right, otherwise no one will follow.)
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To: factoryrat

If they are above the age of consent I’m not sure how or why it would matter.


4 posted on 04/04/2017 4:28:52 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Somebody has to step forward and do what is right because it is right, otherwise no one will follow.)
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To: markomalley
But according to a 2010 Alabama law, consent is not a defense.

To me, this is the crux of the problem. Consent to sex is defense against rape and SHOULD be defense against this law. We can argue of the age of consent but certainly, if an 18 year old can buy a rifle, serve in the military, own a car or a house ..., to me, they can give consent.

A minor, under 18, in my opinion can not give consent.

5 posted on 04/04/2017 4:33:53 PM PDT by taxcontrol (,)
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To: markomalley

The fact that this judge thinks it is a “constitutional” issue says everything. What a repulsive, perverted a**hole.


6 posted on 04/04/2017 4:37:45 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: markomalley

WTH??


Judges and lawyers milking the taxpayers is all this nonsense is.

Judicial systems has a blank check to waste our money. Big courthouses and all that personnel is costing us a lot of money for their clown shows.


7 posted on 04/04/2017 4:37:58 PM PDT by boycott
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To: FreedomStar3028
"If they are above the age of consent I’m not sure how or why it would matter."

Because we don't want perverts like you having sex with our kids while they are in school.
8 posted on 04/04/2017 4:40:49 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: taxcontrol

I agree 18 and over should not be a felony but the employee should be fired. Students are not there for the sexual use of teachers.


9 posted on 04/04/2017 4:40:56 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: FreedomStar3028

Because school employees excercise power over students. It is no different than lawyers or doctors or psychologists not having sex with their clients


10 posted on 04/04/2017 4:57:43 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: Steve_Seattle

If she is above the age of consent, where is the perversion? It is a gross laspse of professional judgement, and a firing offense. It could also be a crime, if the individual used their position to influence consent or promise a reward. However this is not a sex offense.


11 posted on 04/04/2017 5:01:24 PM PDT by drop 50 and fire for effect ("Work relentlessly, accomplish much, remain in the background, and be more than you seem.)
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To: markomalley

If a federal judge were deciding this, he’d make it mandatory for the kids to have sex with the teachers—especially if it’s gay sex.


12 posted on 04/04/2017 5:01:24 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: markomalley
[Attorney] Tuten compared the law to previous statutes that outlawed interracial marriage and same-sex relationships. In those cases, he said, the courts have ruled, "You can't legislate morality."

Who didn't know this was going to happen?

13 posted on 04/04/2017 5:29:45 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("I prefer to think of myself as ... civilized." ~Jonathan Q. Higgins)
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To: factoryrat

That this is even being debated, is mind blowing.

The student is in a subordinate position, even if they are 18. If they want to get together the day after graduation, have at it.

As long as you are in the service of the taxpayers, and the student is your charge, this should be a capital crime.


14 posted on 04/04/2017 5:32:11 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

I agree. It seems to be a 1st and 12th amendment issue to me. That said any state supported higher education should be required to have a morals clause in their educators contract providing for immediate and unquestioned dismissal for cause. We had a morals clause in our contract when I was the school board chair and it stood muster, we also applied it on occasion.


15 posted on 04/04/2017 5:32:33 PM PDT by VTenigma (The Democrat party is the party of the mathematically challenged)
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To: markomalley

Any person over thirty that could stand being around a teenager should be in a psychiatric ward.


16 posted on 04/04/2017 6:09:15 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Brace. Brace. Brace. Heads down. Do not look up.)
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To: Steve_Seattle

Perverts like me?

Seriously?

Then change the law in ALABAMA. DO YOU LIVE IN ALABAMA?

AGE OF CONSENT 16.

What would you say to the 19 year old janitor that meets his 16 year old wife at the school? Or the 20 year old TA that meets their 17 year old wife at school? If they met them anywhere else in ALABAMA it would be okay.

The only argument you have on this is your emotion.

Exactly like the left.


17 posted on 04/04/2017 6:18:56 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Somebody has to step forward and do what is right because it is right, otherwise no one will follow.)
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To: Nifster

So if it’s a janitor himself just out of high school, or a TA doing an internship and they meet their wife at the school and they are a student they can’t have sex? But if they met them anywhere else they can?


18 posted on 04/04/2017 6:22:04 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Somebody has to step forward and do what is right because it is right, otherwise no one will follow.)
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect

Exactly my point.

But try to explain common sense logic to some FReepers all they have is emotional outrage.


19 posted on 04/04/2017 6:23:02 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Somebody has to step forward and do what is right because it is right, otherwise no one will follow.)
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To: factoryrat; All
"The question [??? emphasis added] of constitutionality is being raised by defense attorneys …”

"That this is even a debatable issue is just wrong on so many levels.”

Given that I understand this situation correctly, and given that I understand your reply correctly, I agree. Without even reviewing the Constitution, I can safely say that the states have never amended any express right to the Constitution which prohibits the states from making such a law.

Corrections, insights welcome.

20 posted on 04/04/2017 6:49:08 PM PDT by Amendment10
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