Posted on 03/27/2017 8:26:37 PM PDT by LS
Dick Morris says what I have said for a couple of weeks. Obamacare really has been killed, and no one noticed.
Trump told the IRS not to enforce the "individual mandate." That is the essential coercive element. No mandate, no O-care. Morris said he did this last week---in fact, I heard more than four weeks ago that the IRS was NOT enforcing this and just assumed it came from Trump.
Second, the requirement that you buy from an "approved" insurance company---Trump waived that as well by telling HHS to approve any policy as "qualifying."
Yes, some of the subsidies and other crap remains, but the individual mandate---which the USSC upheld---is gone and so is the other coercive mechanism.
And nobody noticed.
I love your explanation, it’s very accurate.
It will ask about coverage, and calculate the penalty for each month of no qualifying coverage. Even with this year’s much higher penalty, it is far cheaper than buying ridiculous insurance that covers nothing.
I’m sorry, but the government forcing people to buy a service they don’t want is a much clearer form of socialism than people choosing of their own free will to buy a service but having to pay more for it because of bad government policies. I can only assume that your worry over your own premiums going up has blinded you from seeing how anti-conservative this stance of yours is. The government doesn’t have a right to put anyone in theoretical chains to keep your costs lower until a better replacement maybe, possibly, eventually comes down the pike. The “I don’t feel fully free, so you must be an even bigger slave” argument just isn’t a good pro-liberty stance.
I never thought I’d see such an impassioned defense of the government enforced mandate (yes, even if you hope it’s only temporary) on a conservative site, while you insult anyone who doesn’t want to be forced by big government to buy insurance as “freeloaders.” Getting rid of the mandate with insurance rates subsequently going up is probably the best way (and perhaps the only way) at this point to get enough people from all sides of the aisle demanding that it be gotten rid for us not to have to endure years more of barely tottering along Obamacare. Having no mandate ensures that Obamacare will collapse much sooner. I personally celebrate the removal of what is by far the most clearly unconstitutional part of Obamacare, even though you appeared to be seething with rage that it may be gone, a stance I’ve never heard from a conservative before.
You must have imagined that I suggested that you couldn’t complain about Ryan’s bill, since I never even mentioned Ryan’s bill anywhere in my comment. I only criticized the stance you took so angrily defending the continuance of huge government control over regular people’s lives. And by the way, your initial rant against what Trump is doing, where you attacked anyone opting out from IRS-enforced socialism, was the biggest example of “silly drama” I saw on this thread, which is what prompted my conservative critique of your stance.
what’s “incos”>>>
sorry insco — “insurance company” shorthand only if it acronym-ed correctly.
You seem to be shooting from the hip just to make argument.
“Having no mandate ensures that Obamacare will collapse much sooner.” Really? Why? Because some people will get stuck even worse so they will complain? Sounds like you are advocating the same thing you accuse me of, “I don’t feel fully free, so you must be an even bigger slave” — that is already the law, now you argue to flip it and enslave someone else instead of fixing the problem and repealing ObamaCare. Dick Morris is arguing nothing needs done. I oppose his silly argument.
I think you would rather have the problem fixed, but you are just arguing about little rhetorical issues in trying to negate the damage done by people like Dick Morris here.
It is two sides of a stool, pull any leg and it falls. One leg is already pulled! Why pass a law to pull the other side when it will still be a broken chair?
It is a no win situation unless we actually repeal and go free market, because the status quo sucks, and RinoCare would suck just as badly.
Why not WAIT a month or two or however long for a REAL REPEAL instead of confusing most of America by passing junk only to have us hate it and try to repeal that also in a month or a year or two?
I attacked Ryan’s tiny pittance of a repeal via eliminating the mandate, as an example of a problem, because it was practically their biggest BAIT for a selling point, and a lot of people bit. It’s bait and switch. No one should bite that junk. Dick Morris wants us to bite, though, ObamaCare is repealed because some people will not have to buy insurance! Wrong, the list of other injustices in OCare goes on and on. Give us back a free market.
I attacked it because Dick Morris is making it out to be the main thing that represents the repeal of ObamaCare, and it is not, and I do not want people complacently thinking that, because I want a better bill, way better.
Do you realize that you come off as defending RinoCare (?), a sick rehash of ObamaCare because you favor a pittance in principal which even if it had passed would be, as you now recognize, temporary, because we are not going to be satisfied with RinoCare; and you appear to defend RinoCare despite it being a grossly unconstitutional bill otherwise, way way worse in principal than any little advantage in principal maybe gained from revoking the mandate and sticking us with the rest of the garbage.
You seem to advocate that no one may NOT pass RinoCare because its dropping of the insurance mandate trumps all the badness — even conservatives MUST to vote for poison because of your pet wish, or else we are bad.
I do not believe that — I think that you just want to argue today for no good reason when we are on the same side. I hope I am right about that, because if not, then you actually LIKE RinoCare, an intrusive Fed scheme that is essentially ObamaCare, and you would not even be recognizing that! I cannot imagine you think that way.
No one is doing or advocating or choosing ANYTHING (though you are trying to paint me with it) by NOT passing what you seem to be arguing for as a pet project, RINOCARE. We are just NOT picking a POISON version of ObamaCare that might temporarily please a few people. We do not like either “plan.”
Are you hoping RinoCare passed, knowing that entire industries could start to gear up for it only to have us re-repeal it and pass a better bill next month? No!
I would not believe that about you, unless you actually LIKE RinoCare, and I am not going to paint you with that either.
We are on the same side and you are not picking the right battles. I think you should fight a better fight.
Repeal ObamaCare soon, don’t patch it a little to placate just enough people that we end up limping into full nationalized health care.
Good Bye.
THe next communist President will demand all penalties be paid that were not enforced immediately. BElieve this, if Trump fails and the pathetic Republican Party doesn’t get behind him, we will have a hard core leftist even worse than Obama and pubs will never have a majority again.. so these dumbasses better wake up.
this is it folks. trump better succeed or this is it.. it’s open borders and no constitution
Then why leave the employer mandate in place? Did he give a solid reason for leaving it? I said weeks ago.. just don’t enforce it. Obama set a fun precedent with not enforsing.
So why is my insurance still so expensive?
The price has nothing to do with the mandate. Totally separate issues.
Their connected in that the mandate was supposed to control the price. The mandate failed, which is the primary reasons prices escalated so much.
Nothing? Ok.. I am forced to buy car insurance if I want to drive... and you contend insurance companies do not have a monopoly and can charge whatever they want? Very little competition in auto insurance because the states, even counties mandate coverage minimums and insurance are charging less, you think? The employer mandate created a situation where employers are forced to choose, participate in the insurance monopoly mandate, or cut hours.
I do not understand how the employer mandate kept prices the same or lowered them, so help me understand.
So why did trump.. the jobs prez, ignore the employer mandate?
As I keep saying, he didn’t. His first ex order, FIRST ONE, was to not enforce the IRS individual mandate. It’s dead.
Car insurance? This has nothing to do with auto insurance, and you know it.
No, the employer mandate did NOT lower prices, which is why Trump essentially killed it. There is no “employer mandate” now and no individual mandate that is enforced.
When/where did Trump kill the employer mandate or end the enforcement? Not questioning your intel; seriously would like a reference to the employer mandate.
Trump’s first exec order told IRS not to enforce.
No, I don’t think there is an employer mandate. But an employer can provide private insurance. Nowhere does it say an employer must provide Obamacare. They did so because (in theory) it was cheaper-—but if there are no exchanges, then it not only won’t be cheaper, but it won’t be available at all. They will have to go private.
I will now diminish and go into the west...
Oh, yes. That needs to go.
If we’re really talking about a deal on repealing Obamacare being reached in a month or two, then this whole conversation is moot. The vast majority of people who personally buy their own insurance had their enrollment windows close in Jan. or Feb. They couldn’t decide to opt in or out of anything now. What I’m worried about is that the Republicans still won’t be able to get their acts together and come up with a compromise bill that can actually pass both houses, and what Trump talked about waiting until Obamacare dies to do anything will come to pass instead. He talked about how the Dems will see the necessity of making a deal within a year (!) *after* Obamacare collapses.
Even the Democrats insisted that the mandate is fundamental to the survival of Obamacare. Without it, it is guaranteed to die. Right now the Dems are celebrating how they “saved Obamacare” from the evil rightwingers who wanted to toss 24 million Americans off of their health insurance. As long as the structure of Obamacare is in place, the Dems (and maybe even some moderate Republicans) will fight to keep it. If Trump cripples it and they know for a fact that it is already gone, then they will have to accept the idea of a replacement. That will make Obamacare collapse more rapidly, because much fewer numbers of people will opt in when that was already causing dire, potentially fatal problems for the exchanges. Obamacare can’t survive without participants. That’s just common sense.
So, sure if we’re talking about a deal being made within months, then Congress dealing with everything is better than just getting partial executive action, although even there with taxes coming due very soon, it would be nice to know if the executive branch will enforce the unconstitutional penalty or not. But if what Trump was talking about comes to pass and we are talking about next year or even after the mid-terms (imaging what a new Dem Congress would do about this!), then I enthusiastically applaud anything that Trump can do to dismantle Obamacare before then. Getting rid of the mandate and showing Congress that Obamacare is crippled beyond saving and must without question be replaced is the best inducement to forcing the do-nothing Congress to actually get something done on this front I can think of.
And by the way, I am not guilty of the same thing I pointed out that you were advocating. I was saying that millions should be let free of their chains, which wouldn’t change the status of everyone else who decide to keep their insurance at all in regard to government control over their lives, although one could say it would enslave them to the capitalistic laws of supply and demand. Less demand, i.e. fewer people choosing to buy insurance, in this case would cause overall prices to rise, but this would still be the case under any law of the land. If you repeal Obamacare whole cloth, allowing people free choice will still cause premiums to be higher than they otherwise would be.
The only solution to what you see as such a big problem would be to permanently keep the “socialist” mandate, which you say you do not want to do for the long run. You could say I want people enslaved to capitalism, but that’s still better than your attack on Trump’s actions (Trump, not Ryan as you now claim) cutting back on socialist-type control over people, as well as your insistence that no one should be let free from big government unless everyone can be at the exact same time (sure, that is more “fair” but it also is the more all-in-it-together, collectivist stance). I see no real benefit to keeping Obamacare intact and more secure for any amount of time. The longer it stays in place only makes it more likely that we get to keep it or a close variation of it permanently.
Cheers.
That’s complete crap! So you think monopolies don’t cause price increases? Just wow! There are very few insurers, whose power was expanded into banking... and you think they are giving us great prices? Well ok then.
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