Iraq then and now: Bush was right and Obama was wrong

americanthinker ^ | March 20, 2017 | Silvio Canto

[MarvinStinson]

This is the 13th anniversary of the start of the Iraq War II.

What if President George W. Bush had not invaded Iraq? I suggest this scenario:

1. Saddam Hussein would have become a bigger threat to the region. He had clearly come to the conclusion that the West would not stop him and was acting as such.

2. Iraq would have continued shooting at U.S. and UK planes enforcing UN resolutions. How many times do you allow someone to fire missiles at your aircraft?

3. What about Israel? We do know today that Iraq won't be attacking Israel or has WMDs to threaten its neighbors. We can thank President Bush for that.

Bush's critics need to answer one simple question: what if Bush had not invaded Iraq?

I have not heard anyone explain how the region would have been better if we had left Saddam in power.

Or, they say "knowing what we know now." They have to make a call based on what we knew then. What we knew then is that the twin towers had been brought down, Saddam Hussein was behaving very badly.

If Americans have learned anything since 9/11 is that when people say they intend to kill you please take them seriously.

The second question is: what if President Obama had left a force in Iraq in 2011 to protect our gains? This is a more relevant question and the Middle East is exhibit A of what our retreat accomplished.

For the moment, President Bush gets all of the criticism about Iraq and President Obama gets a free pass from a friendly media. Over time, it will change and Bush will get credit for leadership and Obama will be blamed for retreating and forcing his successor to have to go back in.

[WatchungEagle]

Please tell me this is a joke.

[mbj]

Vulgar and ignorant simultaneously...unsurprising those traits appear together.

[NorthernTraveler]

No WMD in Iraq?

I’ve got friends who were ‘boots on the ground’ in Iraq in ‘03.

They, personally, found evidence of WMDs.

They had been removed at that point, but radioactive materials left a distinct ‘signature’ for a long time.

These materials were in a location that shielded them from detection from above.

Then there is the matter of the 500 tons of yellowcake that we removed to Canada for disposal.

Oh, BTW, Saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers against Israel 50k... thus supporting terrorism.

[WENDLE]

Total bull shit!! ZERO!!!!

[datricker]

Boy did Paul Wolfowitz turn out to be a scum bag. Lots of us defended them but they wouldn't defend themselves and we got Obama and lost the war.

Its been how history has played out and the Trump campaign made it pretty clear just how scummy the Bushes and those in their orbit. Now I don't even know if Obamas approach wasn't better as we didn't have new causalities everyday for that pile crap called Iraq.

Regardless we have had terrible foreign policy and bad leadership since Reagan - that is why Trump is here and boy howdy how all the Bushes, Clintons, McCain and Obamas can unite to take him out the one person who makes senses and seems likely to end this endless war.

[Ciaphas Cain]

If He left the 10k troops there, MAYBE, though I would still be angry at Bush for letting Saudi Arabia off the hook, Bush would have had a legacy.

I don't give a flying rat's ASS about Bush's "legacy" and neither should you or anyone else. He was elected to serve to the best of his ability, NOT to establish a "legacy".

What is George W. Bush's legacy? Being a blithering idiot who effed-up the Middle East and our own country and is second ONLY to Obama the Usurper as the worst president in modern history.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

The entire government suffers from the repetitive syndrome of an elite who just think they are so much smarter than everyone else.

[Concentrate]

Hiya! Why are we still in Germany, Japan and South Korea? Aren't they able to take care of themselves by now?

One would think so.

Therefore, why did we leave Iraq, and our Iraqi friends?

Do you really think a country can be stabilized into a system of republican democracy in 10 years? Seems absurd.

We rescued the Iraqis and then abandoned them.

What kind of friends are we?

Certainly not the kind that can be trusted.

Ask the Vietnamese. Same thing.

"We've got your back. Oh, but sorry, we've had a change in policy, so now you're on your own to die or whatever."

Great friends, aren't we?

[Concentrate]

He kept Iraq from nuking us and spread Democracy and peace in the middle East

So why aren't we still there, protecting our Iraqi friends? The ones who trusted us to protect them?

You know, the ones who wanted a normal life? Like raising children to go to school and college and start businesses?

Under Obama, we abandoned them.

Such a shame on us.

Shame on us for letting that happen.

[datricker]

yeah we do suck in that regard because well - we’ve lost our spine
or rather most democrats and to many republicans don’t seem to be
very American. Yes what you said makes all those lives lost in the
Iraq war so pointless in the macro view - man it makes me ill to
think thats true but it as time moves forward it seems to be the case.
Further it has made me pretty anti-war because war sucks and it doesn’t
seem like we have had the mentality it takes as a nation to win a war.
Seriously what was the last war we won Panama with Noriega or helping out
the Kosovo precursors to al queda and attacking Serbia the christian country
that has been for centuries taking the brunt and holding off the muslim’s
never ending attempt to get to Europe and out of that cursed desert crap land
called the fertile crescent.

[Concentrate]

Thanks for replying.

I,for one, am tired of losing. After all, why bother? Get it in it to win and help people, or just don't make an effort.

I'd choose the former. Stick with it, I say.

The Middle East would be stable now if we had stayed there in Iraq, and hadn't meddled with Egypt, Libya, etc.

[datricker]

As far as Iraq goes think of those Marsh Arabs who the GHWB abandoned after he led them to believe we would support them and Saddam slaughtered them. We did this twice in Iraq - oh man. Yes I think you are right it would be stable now.

Not a democracy and probably still not a nation - I think it has become common to mistaken conflate a goverment with the nation. A nation of people wants to be a nation these people seem to hate one another for coming from another family/tribe.

Throwing a blanket of a democratically themed constitution over the gangland barrio that is the mid east was in hindsight naive and stupid. We probably should have done a Sherman march to the sea from Afghanistan to Syria but now that chance is gone.

I also think this limited war and avoiding civilian causalities actually seems to do the opposite of what its is supposed to do. Rather than make the effort more targeted and effective it seems to drag the conflict out and give the protesters routine episodic events to sap the will back on the home front.

If we do go to war it should be to crush, destroy and generally annihilate the opposition as a nation, people, geographical area and government. I don't think we have the stomach for the right approach - I sure hope I am wrong

[NorthernTraveler]

I tend to agree.

I was in Iraq in 2006 - when I was there the plan was to eventually draw down but retain 4 bases and retain about 10k troops in Iraq.

These troops would be there to keep a lid on things - kill the hard core Islamist’s, keep the local government on track, and supply stability and security to the local forces who kicked the doors in and were the first line of defense to take care of things.

By 2007 the locals had mostly turned on the foreign fighters and were working with us to root them out.

Do you remember that when we went into Sadr City again in 2007 that the Anbar awakening councils sent 300 fighter to support us in that operation?

But somebody - Obama - thought he knew better and pulled everyone out. Then went on to destabilize the whole Middle East.

So Bush had a plan that would have worked, but Obama did it differently. Bush warned him, but O thought he knew better.

Oh, I’ve also been in Afghanistan - twice - once under Bush and once under O. O’s rules of engagement got ALOT of our folks killed... and sold the whole deal down the river.

I’ve read around here the numbers, if I remember correctly we lost 6.3 KIA a month in the first 7 years in Afghanistan under Bush, and something just over 25 KIA a month in the first 5 year in Afghanistan under O.

And yes, O sold out the Iraqi’s who helped us, and the Afghani’s too. Thus making our country considered unreliable on the world stage for any potential partners.

[mbj]

Thank you: thank you very much for trying to add valuable information (facts) amongst all the other worthless noise on this thread.

[x]

+1

[x]

Saddam was funding global terrorism in Israel and elsewhere.

In the same way and to the same degree that Assad and the Iranians are? But the world goes on.

And there's more terrorism now that the old dictators are gone. Because there's more passion behind it.

[rollo tomasi]

Saddam Hussein would have become a bigger threat to the region.

No, Saddam would be a Baathist dictator that would be a threat to both the Sunnis and Shiites. The US is on the other side of the world. We could still leverage crude oil and Saudi would be scared poopless so that are bonuses; should have let Saddam deal with the "let's create a Caliphate" bastards instead of us.

Iraq would have continued shooting at U.S. and UK planes enforcing UN resolutions. How many times do you allow someone to fire missiles at your aircraft?

'88 Bush should of told Thatcher and the Kuwaites to pound in sand on that point. Again, a Baathist dictator is a heck of a lot better than a radicalize (Eventually) Islamic Sunni or Shiite. Follow Washington's advice on friendly trade relations and go from there.

What about Israel? We do know today that Iraq won't be attacking Israel or has WMDs to threaten its neighbors. We can thank President Bush for that.

For all intensive purposes God is in control and looking at the Israeli's abortion rates, same-sex marriages, atheist/secular "Jews" etc... God has some future plans in store if current Israel does not repent. Anyway as for current Israel, you do not want to militarily engage them because of nukes and superior fire power plus not having any idea what exactly God's plan is (Six, actually one, Days war filled with Spiritual anomalies should tell anyone to stay away).

Limited government should apply to foreign policy too American Thinker.

[datricker]

Very interesting and tragic - thank you for all you have done for US back home by serving and doing what you could to keep us safe. Its Freepers like you that can help us who didn't serve stay reasonable and have a more accurate perspective.

Obama ruined so many things. I guess I get so mad at the Bushes because I apply an opinion with the benefit of the hindsight of history, seeing the consequences of GWB not standing up to the left. I believe you are right given more time we were finally on the right path - it just took too long to get there and by then the left had made deep in roads on sapping the public support. This is what I blame Bush for as it set the table for Obama to apply his terrible strategy.

911 happened and I really liked GWB and now feel like a moron for it not just for the war but for all the globalist crap, Saudi ties and then Jeb and them attacking Trump while being chummy with Obama and Clinton.

I suppose I take all of then negatives and retroactively apply them to his handling of the war. I know I'm an ideologue and a partisan (although I lost my party on a cronibus) which makes it tough to see things objectively - but man I detest the Bushes days.

I do know that it was the GWB experience that led me to be quite open to president Trump's "don't get fooled by terrible phoney leaders again, adios amgios, America first" message.

Sorry for the ramble and thanks for the reply. Once again thanks for fighting for me.

[a fool in paradise]

Saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers.

[BestPresidentEver]

Conservatives are still trying to defend the Iraq war? Bush drove away a whole generation of young voters with that stupid war. Obama would never have been elected if the country wasn’t so disgusted with Bush.