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To: Engraved-on-His-hands
You have been provided with the facts and several specific legal references, including no less an authority than Rashi. There are more.

Ignoring those and saying "I believe [it] is not the verse usually used to justify the statement in question" without any explanation gives you zero credibility.

It IS Torah. Because you don't want it to be, doesn't invalidate God's Truth.

Genuius Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan on the issue:

Just as one may kill in self-defense, so it is required to kill one who is pursuing or attacking another with murderous intent. Of course, if it is possible, one must save the person being pursued by injuring the attacker. Only when this cannot be done must we have no pity and kill the attacker.

Similarly, any assailant who might kill when provoked, such as a burglar or armed robber, must be killed by any bypasser to save the victim. Extending this to include all cases of endangering life, even a young child who does not know better, or an unborn baby, must be killed, since the life of the victim must be saved by any means.

We are taught that rape is equivalent to murder. Therefore, if one is attacking a woman with the intent of raping her, he may be killed to save her as long as he has not completed the act. Regarding a woman being sexually attacked, the Torah states, "Only the rapist shall be put to death… Since he attacked the betrothed girl in the field, even if she had cried out, there would have been no one to come to her aid" (Deut. 22:25, 27), which implies that if a rescuer is present, he may use any means to save her, even if it means killing the attacker. One may similarly save a man from homosexual attack.

http://www.aish.com/jl/i/mn/48932892.html

Torah trumps unsubstantiated opinion and ignorance ("and cannot reasonably be implied from these verses"). The literature is full of exacting explanations of exactly that.

150 posted on 01/13/2017 6:23:53 PM PST by Mr. M.J.B.
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To: Mr. M.J.B.
You apparently accept the Talmud as authoritative. That is your prerogative. (Whether you accept it as canonical or inspired, I don't know.) The original quotation that started this discussion is found in the Talmud. It is not found in the Christian Bible. Since Christians do not accept the Talmud as authoritative, having the Talmud tell us that the quotation is in the Christian Bible does not compel us to accept it.

You said, “You have been provided with the facts and several specific legal references, including no less an authority than Rashi.” Christians do not accept Rashi as authoritative. Rashi's opinion might be correct in many areas. But his opinions are still not authoritative for Christians.

Once again, I am not arguing against Israel's action. I am merely trying to point out to those reading that the original quotation ("If someone is coming to kill you, rise against him and kill him first.") cannot be found within the pages of the Christian Bible. I have asked for book, chapter, and verse where the quotation is found—the actual words, not some medieval scholar's opinion about them. No passage with the quotation has been provided. It isn't there. For the Christian our standard is the Bible, not someone's opinion (right or wrong) about it.
151 posted on 01/13/2017 6:55:39 PM PST by Engraved-on-His-hands (Conservative 2020!)
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