Posted on 09/22/2016 3:38:26 AM PDT by expat_panama
Hey, now. I’m a manufacturing worker just outside of Detroit, and my paycheck (in large part) is derived from NAFTA (God Bless Ronald Reagan!).That's a good point from a selfish point of view...
The NAFTA you're living off of is the one proposed by lame duck GHW Bush, signed by Bill Clinton and IS NOT THE NAFTA Reagan proposed...Nice try though.
imho what's worse is CNN saying that even if maybe Trump never said what they quoted, he still meant it. Sounds a lot like Dan Rather's idea that even if the evidence is fraudulent the charge is still true.
--and that's a good thing. On average, the U.S. consumer has $4,000 more to spend every year than he did ten years ago (from here).
A lot of folks say that but my experience is that Americans are not idiots, we know how to buy and sell stuff w/o whining "hey no fair no fair".
Increasing my taxes will not make me want to hire more Americans. What's going to happen is the tax hikes will force me to take money away from payrolls and give it to the government. Somehow I'd have thought that this really should not be something that needed saying on a conservative forum.
...the unfair advantage china, mexico and others enjoy due to very low wages and next to no environmental protections simply evens the playing field.
For me the market place is for buying and selling and not a feild for playing in, but even if it were we all know that there is never in real life where a playing field is perfectly level. We deal with it by trading off and deciding whether we want to play or not. As for business I'm going to choose for myself whether I'm willing to buy or sell stuff and for me it's a lot easier w/o the gov't taking over so certain party faction members can feel more 'protected'.
Bob buddy, let’s stop calling it “free” trade. We all know that the US subsidizes defense of other countries, damage to the environment is exported to other countries, and other countries use slave and child labor that is illegal in this country. That’s not free.
--$4,000 more to spend every year than he did ten years ago (from here).
The issue here is the income a U.S. consumer has for consumer products and other purchases.
Huh. I know where the numbers are for 'disposable personal income' are but this U.S. discretionary consumer income is a new one. We can just say that it's whatever you want it to be, I'm easy.
Maybe, or maybe the thing is that we could separate policy from the sales pitch. My thinking is that his speeches are the sales pitch because they're laid back and informal, but his actual stated policy is orderly and really not something we'd disagree with. Pse let me know if you see something I'm missing something here...
“free trade”??. No its corporations working out deals that even our Representatives can’t see.
We can’t keep giving our jobs to the world and throwing the unemployed onto the care of government. This keeps boosting reliance on government and votes for Democrats.
Look at what you buy, see where it is made. If they can make it then so can we.
>>1. There’s no reason why the “buying power of our 300M will exceed the buying power of those 2+ billion people in perpetuity. We have many natural and historic advantages over other countries in this regard, but we are becoming increasingly hampered over time as well.
You are precisely correct. Every year of trade imbalances that are paid for with fiat currency lowers the buying power of our 300M and raises the buying power of their 2B. We are literally selling them the rope they will use to hang us...or more correctly, we sold them the technology to make the rope that we will purchase so they can hang us.
When you get into purchasing power parity, the economic power of the middle class American worker vs the middle class Chinese worker gets even worse.
Yes you are missing something. Trump wants fair trade deals. My economics knowledge tells me that BOTH countries benefit the vast majority of the time even if the trade deal is one-sided (or unfair).
That's not easy to follow.
A trade is where two people each have different things, and both decide that they'd be better off if they had what the other has even if they gave up what they have. The only kind of deal I can imagine that would be one way or unfair would have to be something forced, and if so then it wouldn't be a trade deal --it'd just be theft.
Tarriffs asymmetrically applied is what I am referring to.
Oh, you enjoy enslaving third world peasants and polluting their environment just to make a buck. there is never in real life where a playing field is perfectly level.
that makes your enslavement of the peasants okay then - if you didn't, someone else would I guess.
great arguments you have there for "free" trade - the only "free" about it is the work provided by the slaves.
Ah, what we're saying is that w/ cross border commerce the people of both countries benefit even when tariffs imposed by each country's government differs from the other's. I can live with that.
As for my point of view, I think it's relevant to mention when people start running around claiming that they want to save my job, when the opposite is true.
Oh, you enjoy enslaving third world peasants...
This is something about business that I imagine you'll probably never be willing to accept, that my being a bad guy has nothing to do with the fact that my company's cash can not go to payrolls if the government confiscates it for taxes.
Also, from what I understand your position is both widely held and one of deep seated conviction, and changing it w/ the greater public will take a lot of new smarter kids replacing us old stupid f@rts.
But what they are, are taxes.
They take money out of the pocket of some citizens, under penalty of imprisonment, in order to benefit other citizens.
And they are every bit as susceptible to cronyist manipulation as is our current tax system.
As long as we all keep that in mind, we'll be OK.
Let's try cutting the corporate income tax by about two-thirds, rolling back the regulatory burden (FTC, EPA, EEOC, OSHA etc) to what it was in about 1975, and ashcanning Obamacare.
If that doesn't start increasing employment in a couple of years, I'll talk about excise taxes. But not before.
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