Posted on 08/29/2016 7:41:17 AM PDT by Boomer
Again, he said/they said
Lochte lied in his original testimony, in American courts can lowers your testimony value
We are talking about Brazilian law here, in America we have different laws and our court system is innocent until proven guilty. We can not expect a Brazilian government to follow American laws because Lochte is an American.
Just like we can not and should not allow Saudia Arabian Shaheria law dictate laws in the United States. We can’t have it both ways.
They vandalized some else’s property, gun point or not, and I don’t know how Brazil handles pety crime, he was responsible for what he did (and the others are responsible for what they did)
An American in Singapore got canned 60 times for vandalizing a car. If he did that here, he probably would have just got probation.
Perhaps for the average traveler but Brazil doesn’t need the bad press on a big shot medal Olympian who has brought every new and celebrity camera in the world to focus on this. Bottom line, do they really want to put 3 American Swim Team members in some hell hole for a year over a sign that can be screwed back into a wall in 10 minutes flat? Do they really need the bad publicity? They’ve already lost untold numbers of tourists now that there’s no question about their polluted beaches and low life scum mugging police. Press this and they’ll lose more tourists. It’s Brazil who has a black eye in this. Keep at it and they’ll have two black eyes and a butt beating. They’ve lost a lot more than that $11k. Temer and Paez can’t be that stupid.
(a millionaire, BTW)
Why do you harp on the fact that Lochte has earned money? Are you angry that he had to work hard for it, as opposed to having it handed to him? Or is it a socialist thing, where you hate anyone who has earned a million or more?
Well said.
And your son was in the wrong as he shouldn’t have been in Mexico to begin with. At least the time I was in Tijuana is 100% off limits to Marines (even though we still went there)
I am asserting that you are hand waving away the provable evidence to keep pushing your narrative that "he deserved it."
We differ.
We do. I advocate an evidence based position, and you are advocating some sort of punitive attitude directed at an innocent man, and for reasons that are so far totally unfathomable to me. How you can ignore the evidence to push your narrative, I do not grasp.
It is the same feeling I get when I contemplate how people want to vote for Clinton because they think she is more honest and has more experience. It is not a "reality" based belief.
Accept it.
And why should I do that? Just because people say a man is a woman, doesn't make it so. My own personal philosophy requires me to refuse to accept illusion as the truth. I don't care that other people wish to believe untrue things, I will not do this and I will urge others not to do it either.
But not challenged or rebutted.
As I said, it makes no difference here. The point is, when you are in a foreign country, even if the police are owned by the family of the guy who runs the store that had the sign ripped down, you are immediately behind the 8-ball.
Gaffer knows, as one of his posts shows, that you have to stay in front of that 8-ball at nearly all costs, because if you get sucked in any way into the corrupt legal processes of many countries around the world, your options immediately shrink dramatically, sometimes to nothing.
The swimmer is a dufus, that much is clear, but to make it even worse, he isn't an 18 year old sailor going ashore for liberty in Singapore on his first voyage away from family and friends. He is a full grown man who has been abroad before and should know all this, which makes it even stupider.
And I am not taking the side of the Brazilian police, people, or government. Just saying this guy should have known better than to put himself in that situation.
Lochte was not fuzzy when he lied on during the interview.
Do you recall the story about the SUV or van carrying Olympic personnel? I vaguely recall that one of the occupants was shot in the head. I never heard whether he recovered or died. Do you happen to know offhand?
Because Rio has a reputation for being such a quiet and sober town. God forbid that there might be people who get drunk there.
This is someone (a millionaire, BTW) who I’ll not defend in the name of “America, F@ck Yeah”....
Perhaps I am wrong, but I didn't know we use one set of rules for people with money, and another set of rules for poor schmucks. This statement from you helps confirm my suspicion that this is more a case of class envy on your part, and less about what the facts actually are.
I had no knowledge of Lochte's wealth or lack thereof. When I was growing up, I was taught that God regards us all as equal in his eyes, and that he is no respecter of persons. That the Wealthy and the poor were all children of God and that we should treat everyone equally.
I’ve been to a number of different countries and I couldn’t agree more.
Except that your last phrase may be largely if not entirely based on speculation and is not terribly relevant:
... the damage done was just a throw away sign the store gets for free to advertise a product.
How was the security cop hired by the property owner to know the sign was of little or no value or that the holes left in the wall was not a problem.
Was security to expect that the cost to replace the sign should be eaten by his boss?
Do we know security didn't give any money he obtained to the property owner (especially after the owner learned there was money involved)?
Do you doubt the anger of local gods (and their prosecutor and judge) was fully justified when Lochte falsely charged its law enforcement arm with corruption and embarrassed them before the world on this international stage?
I am with you on all those points, but yes...Temer and Paez can indeed be that stupid.
The problem here is that in America, we see it as a broken sign that cost $10 and can be screwed back in with a screw-gun and a few screws. It is logical. It makes sense. Nobody has to go to court, the sign is back on the wall, and it is over. That is how it SHOULD be, and generally, how it is done in the USA.
Logic in some of those 3rd world hell-holes, of which I feel that Brazil largely is, is not the primary mover of things like this. They viewed this (among other things) as an insult to the shopowner/people/police/government/country of Brazil. Not logical, but there it is.
‘This statement from you helps confirm my suspicion that this is more a case of class envy on your part, and less about what the facts actually are.’
That’s certainly how it comes across.
Right, because Rio has little experience with people getting drunk while celebrating. They simply do not know how to properly deal with such a thing because it is so rare.
It's a good thing that none of the other thousands of athletes got drunk in Rio, because the city would have simply been unable to handle it.
Why there might have been playcards and advertisements ripped down all over the city! There might have been hundreds of people pissing in alleys!
Fortunately, all the other athletes from all the other countries behaved like proper guests and did not go get drunk in Rio.
The fact is that the USA seems to be wildly unpopular outside of the USA.
Outside our borders and to the surprise of many prideful and obnoxious Americans we find we are not rock stars after all, but prey for authorities and for scandal.
Look at Mexico. Their methods of extortion of tourists are legendary and have been so for a hundred years.
I’ve read a lot of comments from people who say that Lochte’s misstatements (I’m not sure they were actually lies) are worse than the Brazilian police shaking down the swimmers for thousnads of dollars.
For those people it all seems to boil down to the fact that Lochte was rich, successful and handsome. That’s why they really want to see him punished.
So getting robbed at gunpoint by the local authorities is just something we should accept?
I'm kinda thinking that if this is the normal and accepted practice in other countries, our state department should issue travel warning and advisories to any Americans thinking of visiting such countries where local police robbing you is a normal and accepted practice among the locals.
In the course of my life, the message was unvarying, exactly the same, and seemed very commonsense to me (because I had seen it repeatedly played out) and that message was:
"You can have a good time. You can even get drunk, but you must remember two things: First, you represent the United States of America, and must always remember that. Secondly, if you get into trouble, it makes no difference if you are lying, telling the truth, did do something, or didn't do something. You are on your own. We (your Father/Commanding Officer/Military/Lawyer/Country) will do what we can to help, but in any foreign country, your fate will be at the mercy of those in that country with power who feel you have done something wrong. And there is no getting around that. You will be on your own."
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