[LS]

We keep coming back, though, to a very troubling point for the conspiracy theorists, namely there is no shoulder fired missile that had the range to reach the airliner, unless (and even this is a stretch) directly under it at sea at the time it was fired. But that isn’t what he describes.

On the other hand, the missiles that COULD have reached it were military missiles such as a STANDARD. Yet there is not on single iota of evidence that any ship anywhere in that vicinity released a STANDARD missile that day. Not one single sailor or officer alluding to such. Moreover, the radar tape that I have seen shows NO other object approaching 800.

Third, there is no evidence of a missile strike on any of the 800 debris. There was “red residue” on SOME of the seats, which conspiracy people attribute to a “pass-through” missile. 1) This isn’t proven by any stretch; 2) a STANDARD is not a “pass through” missile. It carries an explosive warhead that wouldn’t even leave this kind of evidence.

The result is that theorists are now left with finding a pass through missile like a target drone used in an exercise. But again, there is no Navy exercise using missiles on any record that day, nor is there ONE radar blip anyone could attribute to a “pass through” missile, nor is there a SECOND radar blip of an anti-aircraft/target-acquisition missile fired from a ship in such an exercise. So, a ship just fired a (say) cruise missile drone that left no radar signature, then did NOT try to shoot it down with another missile (that left no signature?)

I am in sympathy with those who want to find a conspiracy here. I cannot.

[sargon]

What about a bomb? Traces of explosives were found, and it sure wouldn't take much explosive to do the same job that a "magic spark" is supposed to have done, if it could somehow be properly positioned.

It sure seems like all the missile theories are implausible, despite eyewitness accounts...

[Edward.Fish]

Would a bomb on the plane itself account for that?

If so, then perhaps TWA 800 is distraction from what was going on... what were the political and financials of the government like then? Were there any scandals about to break?

One thing I seem to recall is $2.3 Trillions were missing from the federal budget [Pentagon] just prior to 11-Sep-01; the financial records were stored in one of the WTC buildings. — While I’m not convinced that the “government did it” guys are right about 11-Sep, I certainly don’t trust that the Government wouldn’t use the incident as a smokescreen to do shady deads — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU

[bobby.223]

Good post LS. I always wondered that If the Gov. wanted to claim no missile, no terrorism etc. just a mech. failure....why would they order the salvage and reconstruction of damn near the entire plane on land and open up another huge can of worms if THERE was evidence of a missile strike then found. No way they could have kept all of those workers quiet once the word went around the reconstruction site that workers had found terrorism evidence.

[mkjessup]

Those are good points FRiend, however I’m reminded of that saying “the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”, there had to be a most powerful reason for the CIA and FBI to go to such lengths to ignore, discredit and persecute ANY witnesses who dared to defy the “official” explanation.

When viewed in light of the lawless nature of the Clintonista regime at the time, one can only conclude that there was a fire beneath all of that smoke.

[marron]

no shoulder fired missile that had the range to reach the airliner

I have heard the argument many times that no missile could have reached it. I balance that against the dozens of people who saw a missile, and the very odd refusal of investigators to talk to those people. I remember reading of people who went themselves to talk to investigators and noticing that the investigators were refusing to take notes of the interview.

I also remember clearly that the guy heading up the investigation announced what the findings would be before beginning the process, and I also remember the extremes they went to, to make sure that investigators could not talk to each other, only to their superiors. It all smelled to high heaven, it was not a normal investigation.

I also remember that this was the Clinton era, when the phrase "the investigation *is* the cover-up" fit the events again and again.

[FreedomOfExpression]

...the radar tape that I have seen shows NO other object approaching 800

Thanks for your input. It has raised questions in my mind. I wrote them below..

You actually saw the radar tape that showed TWA 800 from at least 5-10 seconds before the explosion until the actual explosion?

At what altitude would the missile become visible to radar?

If it was in close proximity to the aircraft both in latitude and longitude, how distinguishable would a missile with predominately vertical trajectory show up on radar as separate from the aircraft?

Also, if it was a missile that brought down the aircraft, could it have been terrorists using military missiles, U.S. made or otherwise?

[UCANSEE2]

Yet there is not on single iota of evidence that any ship anywhere in that vicinity released a STANDARD missile that day. Not one single sailor or officer alluding to such. Moreover, the radar tape that I have seen shows NO other object approaching 800.

How many drones were flying around that day (this was a naval exercise and there were drones being used)? How many of them showed up on radar?

Third, there is no evidence of a missile strike on any of the 800 debris. There was “red residue” on SOME of the seats, which conspiracy people attribute to a “pass-through” missile. 1) This isn’t proven by any stretch; 2) a STANDARD is not a “pass through” missile. It carries an explosive warhead that wouldn’t even leave this kind of evidence.

A drone carries no explosive charge. And guess what color the drones are painted ?

[Political Junkie Too]

There was this: the "thirty knot track."

I remember at the time reading about a small boat making odd maneuvers. Here is a 1999 article from something called The Observer (a web offshoot of the New York Observer?).

Radar Shows ‘Getaway Boat’ Fleeing Flight 800 Crash, by Philip Weiss.

Excerpt:

---

The third anniversary of the crash of Trans World Airlines Flight 800 is July 17, so it’s a good time to look into what even the Government reluctantly concedes is a mystery about the crash: “the 30-knot track.” The 30-knot track is the radar trail of a boat that was the closest vessel to the 747 when it exploded and that then headed out to sea on a beeline from right under the burning wreckage.

“That boat is extremely suspect,” said William S. Donaldson, a retired Navy commander who supports the missile theory of the plane’s destruction. “He not only doesn’t turn to render assistance, he runs.”

“It’s like the getaway car,” said Graeme Sephton, an electrical engineer who is active in an Internet researchers organization that is highly critical of the Federal investigation.

The Government doesn’t think the unidentified boat is such a big deal. “It does not intrigue me,” said Peter Goelz, the National Transportation Safety Board managing director. F.B.I. spokesman Joseph Valiquette added, “In an ideal world, it would be nice to know everything, but I don’t think the F.B.I. or the N.T.S.B. claims to know everything that happened in the crash.”

This is a convenient position for the F.B.I. to adopt now. The most unsettling thing about the 30-knot track is that the F.B.I. essentially suppressed knowledge of it when the crash was foremost on the public agenda. Two years ago, the F.B.I. closed its criminal investigation into the crash, and James Kallstrom, then the lead F.B.I. investigator, testified before Congress that the agency’s “exhaustive” efforts had included “tracking of all air and waterborne vessels in the area at the time of the explosion followed by appropriate interviews.”

[snip]

The closing of the criminal investigation allowed the N.T.S.B. to hold hearings on the crash, one month later, where it offered hundreds of exhibits, a few of which depicted a “30-knot track” 10 miles out in the Atlantic. Radar data collected during the last minute of the T.W.A. flight revealed the two closest objects to the plane, both between three and four miles away, as a Navy P-3 airplane and what the exhibit called simply a “30-knot target.” Radar data for the next 20 minutes showed the mystery boat heading on a beeline out to sea, on a south-southwest course, even as other boats rushed to the crash to try to help out. It was nearly 9 o’clock at night, not the usual time for an excursion.

“I looked at that and said, ‘Wow, what is that guy doing leaving the scene?'” Commander Donaldson said. “And of course I assumed he was identified.”

---

-PJ

[Political Junkie Too]

I'm also posting a link to Commander William S. Donaldson's website that contains links to all of his raw data, including radar analysis and other imagery.

www.twa800.com - Associated Retired Aviation Professionals, The Flight 800 Investigation.

-PJ

[Pelham]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3437887/posts?page=100#100

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3437887/posts?page=153#153

[Lazamataz]

An aside, before I relate my recollection of that day: The missile need not be a MANPAD. It could easily have been a standard SA (surface to air) missile, rigged on a trawler.

My story: I happened to have taken a day off that day, so I was on the internet and watching MSNBC. Those were the days of the Clinton - Lewinski problem, and MSNBC was very good journalism back then. They had not started their leftward drift yet.

My internet useage was interrupted by a flash bulletin of the Flt 800 explosion, and within 2 minutes, a graphic was pasted on the screen that speculated that it was a ‘center fuel tank explosion.’ The parts of the plane had barely hit the sea, and this graphic was up.

That was very odd. But the thing that most caught my eye was the watermark: PROPERTY OF THE CIA.

I looked again, I thought I read it wrong.

PROPERTY OF THE CIA.

I got closer to my televison.

PROPERTY OF THE CIA.

*****WHAT****???? WHY was the CIA posting graphics on a PURE speculation while the fuselage parts were still hot enough to boil seawater???!?

5 minutes later, the graphic was shown again.

PROPERTY OF THE FAA.

That is the very moment I knew it was a coverup.

[Lockbox]

I base this was not an accident on two facts:

1. Normally the National Transportation Safety Board is required to investigate airline disasters. However, in the event of a criminal aviation disaster, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has the lead in the investigation.

So if no criminal activity was found, why did the FBI continue to run the investigation?

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/victim_assistance/cid_aviation

2. It took two years to issue an Airworthiness Directive to address the center fuel tank 'problem' which was the 'cause' of the plane loss. Why so long if the problem killed 230 people. Was it not a priority to prevent another accident? Also no other 747-100 had a center fuel tank issue.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/0C2E04C90BC78C66862569840048978C?OpenDocument&Highlight=747-100%20fuel%20tank

[RinaseaofDs]

It’s less likely that the tank exploded, unfortunately. From an engineering point of view, a tank explosion is massively, massively improbable.

That incident was the beginning of the end of TWA as an airline. I used to fly the 800/801 flights to and from Paris on a regular basis.

The explanation doesn’t hold water, which is why people are still debating it.

There is something here that may or may not be moot. If the Navy did it, something I find unlikely as some old CPO would have coughed it up by now on his deathbed, it would have leaked.

It didn’t have to be a shoulder fired missile. It’s been an operating assumption that terrorists would need something shoulder fired to be effective.

Could have been a vehicle mounted system, and would not have had to have been all that large either.

If it were cased in something metal, then pieces of the body or the motor could have been recovered, however, and none were that we know of.

The only pattern TWA800 fit at the time was that the Clinton Admin was downplaying one major causis belli event after another. Embassy bombings, etc.

TWA looked like an escalation, and it likely was.

I doubt we’ll ever know the truth about it.