Posted on 02/14/2016 5:44:10 PM PST by Helicondelta
So you should have some familiarity with this rodeo
I think you’re dead on the money on all points.
I’d like to add that WMD could mean many things... Generally speaking I would say MASS destruction weapons like bio, chemical, nuke.
Iraq really didn’t have anything I would classifying as WMD, but they did have gas shells and they were working on creating big boy weapons, but not for use on us, but for their regional foes.
Ugh... Iraq was a mistake.
Thanks for your service mate.
We just dont see eye to eye.
“We know France and Russia were complicit in Iraq’s WMD program. Being that both are permanent members of the UN they would both have to agree to the US invasion. To get them to agree, GWB had to allow them time to get them out of country and they did, also we had to vow that they never existed for their agreement on the invasion.”
I think that is plausible. I mean there has to be a reason why those convoys going into Syria just didn’t seem to be a big deal to anyone at the time. Why in the world would we ever let that happen if the whole point was to stop WMD’s?
Freegards
We will again after the primary. Thank you for the kind words. We just support different candidates. I think that is ok especially since both are 1 and 2.....not too bad at all.
This Gov has redefined WMD as fire crackers in a pressure cooker
So why didn’t we just invade Syria?
Freegards
Crucial evidence post!
Astounding that no one here has replied to your evidence link.
1. Saddam evaded UN weapon inspectors for a numerous of years, to the point that the UN passed 14 resolutions addressing his preventing weapons inspections.
2. German, Italian, British and US intelligence all stated they believed Saddam had WMDs based on what they knew prior to the March 2003 invasion. (The Iraqi high ranking defector would later be found to have fabricated testimony, AFTER we invaded)
3. The US Senate passed a resolution of force against Saddam in 1999 by 99 to 1 vote.
4. Convoys of Trucks believed to be carrying WMD materials out of Iraq to Syria were spotted just before the March 2003 invasion.
5. Polish military units did find poison gas warheads in their area of operations.
6. Several bunkers of old poison gas warheads and components were discovered and we’re in violation of agreed WMD destruction.
7. Another factor justifying going to war with Iraq was claims that by Amnesty International and other NGOS that Saddam was responsible for the deaths of up to 600,000 civilians and military while he was in power. Killing thousands of Kurds in poison gas attacks, as well as having his two sons run torture & execution operations on hundreds of political opponents by way of acid baths, and shredding people alive in plastic recycling hammer mill units.
In retrospect, Dubya and out 30 allied countries should have remembered George H Bush’s warning recommending NOT deposing Saddam because of the “POWER VACUMN his absence would leave that would usher in greater chaos”.
However,any Americans and most here believed we invaded for just cause in 2003.
Especially in light of the precedence set by Bill Clinton and NATO invading Serbia Kosova to stop the genocide of Albanian Muslims which turned out to be false.
RE:”http://blog.usni.org/2012/07/20/iraq-chemical-weapons-moved-to-syria-before-2003-invasion
Iraq Chemical Weapons Moved to Syria Before 2003”
We are and we are losing
Your post is one of the most important here!
Every time we allow ourselves to go along with dumbed down lies reframing the Iraq 2003 war action narrative as willfully negligent mistake, we disgrace the 4000 soldiers who died there, and tens of thousands that of terribly wounded vets and their families.
FReepers, you / we are supposed to be tight and right with facts. Don’t let yourselves be found to work for the ones who want to demoralize and destroy us.
RE:”Wikileaks documents show WMDs found in Iraq
Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq
WMDs Found in Iraq Human Events
Saddam talked of WMD attack in U.S.
Saddam’s WMD have been found
Saddam’s WMD Moved to Syria, An Israeli Says
Saddam general: WMDs in Syria
Deadly chemicals are found dumped in river
Evidence of WMDs in Iraq - Annonymous Freeper in Iraq
Cyanide Salt Block Found in Iraq
MSNBC - Cyanide & Mustard Agents Found in Euphrates River
EUPHRATES ‘POISONED’
Iraq’s nuclear weapons program.
Iraq’s biological weapons program.
Iraq’s chemical weapons program.
The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons NYTs October 14, 2014
C.I.A. Is Said to Have Bought and Destroyed Iraqi Chemical Weapons NYTs February 15, 2015”
Well why didn’t we care about the convoys of trucks at the time?
There has been speculation that something incriminating to X in the convoy stopped us from making a big deal about it. But if we are at the point of doing that, my God why wouldn’t we just plant really dangerous WMD to eventually find in Iraq?
Freegards
As I posted earlier, the origins of those wmd’s would have traced back to France and Russia. If that info was revealed it could have sparked a much greater war. Remember, it was Russia and France holding out at the UN security council, they knew what we would find. No, I am a firm believer GWB made the deal to conceal the wmd’s from public scrutiny.Go in, kick SH ass, kill his sons and then say oops,sorry, no wmd’s here afterall.
Ben Laden was visiting Iraq before 2000 and after the start of the Iraq war for meetings with Saddam and for medical treatment. There were many weapons in the country that were never reported or told about after the fact to include medium range missiles that were fired by Saddam into Israel, on pager 110. Iraq purchased cake from Nigeria, denied by Valery Plame at the CIA, and they were using VX given to Saddam by us starting in the Carter administration. He was handed mustard gas from Germany and used it on his own people during the Iran conflicts by accident near Tikrit. So if that happened and no one from the media seemed to remember and print it on this side of the Atlantic, then who over here would know unless they used overseas media or worked within the system and were privy to it? My how soon we forget. I was in the field for 31 years working for uncle sugar. The public knows almost nothing because they are content to sit back and let some talking head on CSPAN or MSNBC tell them what they want them to think. And it’s easy not to research it whether it’s true or not.
OK, so if he is at the point of morally doing that to protect France and Russia, what possible reason did he have not to just plant really serious WMD’s in Iraq?
Freegards
Iraq may not have had any so called Weapons of Mass Destruction in form of nuclear devices, but it had plenty of yellow cake to the tune of 550 metric tons, a precursor to produce fissionable material. Eventually it was transferred to Canada for reprocessing for a more peaceful use. In other words the intend was there but it Iraq never got that far. On the other hand Iran is already there and since their leadership consists of a bunch of dingbats who wouldn’t hesitate to go nuclear, sooner or later some one will have to take them out.
Everything has an origin that can be traced, what was he going to plant and what would the origin show? At the time there was an embargo against Iraq sponsored by the UN. Just who are you going to frame for that? The American people would have demanded retaliation against any country that had done arms trade with Iraq. We know that North Korea also had interest there, you think we would have been prepared to start hostilities there also? No, the easiest thing to do was what he did and by doing so lost much of the respect I had for him.
Thank you! Finally, a voice of reason.
There were no lies. The whole problem boils down to terminology and to the ineffectiveness of nation-building and realpolitik.
1. Terminology.
The definition of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) seemed to drift while GWB was in office, sometimes on a daily basis. The three things that most people thought of as WMDs were as follows:
A. Chemical Weapons, in particular nerve agents.
Iraq had these. They were shipped to Syria via the Bekaa Valley to hide them from foot-dragging UN inspectors.
http://www.nysun.com/foreign/saddams-wmd-moved-to-syria-an-israeli-says/24480/
The reason why GWB was so eager to “confess” to a “lie”? Rumor has it that European countries were selling chemical weapons and/or weapon precursors to Iraq.
B. Biological weapons.
Iraq had an active development program for these, and had industrial-level production facilities for at least one agent. Many were destroyed after Gulf War I, but the UN inspectors’ incompetence and Saddam’s dishonesty brings their complete destruction into question.
http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/biological.html
C. Nuclear weapons.
Iraq did not have any fully developed nukes, but were working very hard on them, like all other enemies of Israel in the region.
They had 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium stockpiled, when they should have had none after Israel bombed the French-made Osirak reactor in 1981.
2. Nation-building & realpolitik.
This was the big mistake in our war with Iraq. Nation-building in the tribal societies of the Middle East simply does not work. They become black holes that suck money and manpower (and American lives).
Our military should only do 2 things: kill people and blow stuff up. Then it should go home. Reagan understood this, that’s why we didn’t hear a peep out of Muammar Gaddafi for years after Reagan had him bombed.
Realpolitik only encourages inaction and half-measures, which (once again) is something not meant for our military. If you send troops in, don’t hamper where they need to go or what they need to do to blow up the right stuff and kill the right people.
There you go. No lies, just stupid politics.
I don’t know. You would think that the power for all the WMDs to disappear into Syria and just have no one care about it would be similar to the power needed to fabricate some sort of WMD in Iraq that didn’t implicate someone we didn’t want it to?
I mean holy heck, just a story and eveidence that they got it out of the country and destroyed it all by dumping it into an oceanic trench or incinerated or destroyed it would have been enough.
Freegards
But .. what people on the left tried to say was that it never existed. That was false.
It did exist. They found all sorts of data, and traces of the chemicals needed, to prove that Saddam had been producing it .. however, it had been sent to Syria and other places.
So, the left has always tried to prove that GW lied .. when the left also believed there WAS WMD in Iraq. But, once it was discovered that the WMD had been removed; immediately they turned on GW and began to say that it never existed.
That’s how the left operates.
What really aggravates me is the knee-jerk reaction of Trump on these types of issues, instead of investigating and finding out that GW didn’t lie about the WMD. While we may like Trump’s stern frankness, I really don’t like the attacks upon really smart, good people; who do not deserve to be attacked.
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