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To: Smokin' Joe
He was right handed, and there are photos of him with a variety of rigs, from cowboy setups, conventional draw, to a cross draw shoulder rig. Who knows.

Police won't think of any of that. All they will see is hands going into a jacket, after fleeing a stop, almost hitting a road block, and jumping out of his vehicle. Not a good combo for those interested in not getting shot.

87 posted on 01/30/2016 4:11:49 PM PST by USNBandit (Sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit
I found other video which pretty much put to rest what I had read about him being left-handed. That simply is not substantiated, but much more appears which would indicate he was right-handed. I even checked what letters/numbers could be discerned on clothing, etc, to make sure the images had not been reversed--they had not.

The road block was set up just past a turn. I honestly don't think, from the time he hit the brakes, he could stop in time.

He avoided hitting it, and narrowly avoided hitting whoever that was (presumably a LEO) who was stepping into the path of the pickup when he went to the left of the roadblock.

No one who has driven around deep snow thinks they are going to keep going far.

Hitting deep snow is like hitting a sand ramp--it absorbs a lot of energy fast, and commonly packs the underside and engine compartment of the vehicle, sometimes with enough material and force to lift the chassis of the vehicle high enough that no traction can be obtained. On occasion, the engine is shut down by snow packed into the engine compartment, in others, the engine continues to run, but the heat, coupled with cold weather will encase it in ice where the snow is present. (Survival 101: keep your engine running.)

The wheels may have kept turning, but it wasn't going anywhere--the pickup was likely 'high centered'.

He exited the vehicle with his hands in plain sight.

Considering the path he was following (no one is going to 'run away' in snow that deep), he took roughly the same path the others took when they came out of the vehicle. To the left of the vehicle, then parallel to the road briefly, then back toward the road.

Noting that the one LEO was nearly hit by the pickup as it went into the ditch, I'd guess that one was really adrenaline pumped by the time LaVoy got out of the truck.

The difficult part is that it is not possible to tell from the video. I noted an absence of muzzle flashes from any weapon in camera view throughout the incident. There were a couple of flash-bangs which can be seen, but are muted in intensity.

Was he shot by someone outside the frame? Or do the muzzle flashes just not show up?

I have little doubt the LEOs were pumped up, they'd been primed to expect a shootout, and LaVoy's comments about not being taken alive (not his exact words) did not help matters.

The account that LEOs took the pickup under fire (without return fire from the vehicle) and the evident impacts and snow puffs from that action is credible, even if colored by time dilation and what may well be some exaggeration of the number of shots or shooters.

In that case, it may be surprising that there were not more dead.

The statement from the occupant who said LaVoy was shot with his hands up may be the most damning.

Imho, surviving this whole 'standoff' would rely on making a protest, making your point, getting the press exposure and establishing places/means of networking with others sympathetic to the situation or who were or had faced similar situations, and then getting out without bloodshed, property damage, or serious confrontation.

That would take organization, press releases, etc. all prepped ahead of time and ready to go.

That would permit organizing more of a movement, having more material to indicate Federal Abuses, and doing so in such a manner as to keep the ability to lobby legislature and others for change in the status quo.

Getting your self killed does not accomplish that, and the inevitable Brady Material the FLEAs and LEOs develop for themselves will make sure your case will be presented in such a way that only those faced with similar problems will be sympathetic.

In the event of a next time, you will be on the defensive from the beginning, trying to differentiate yourself from the ones who had the "shootout" (shootup, more like), and using that valuable time and effort to prove you are not a "dangerous crackpot" or "domestic terrorist" instead of getting the word out about Federal Abuses of power.

Now, it will be an uphill battle because the "standoff" evolved into a "shootout" (awfully one-sided, I saw no exchange of fire) in the public mind.

92 posted on 01/30/2016 4:44:35 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: USNBandit
One more thing, about fleeing a stop. The other (trailing) vehicle had been stopped. He also stopped, and no LEO vehicle advanced to his position that can be seen to do so in the video. At that point, he proceeded.

If someone behind me is pulled over, (whether I know the party or not), that does not mean I am being pulled over, too.

93 posted on 01/30/2016 4:47:21 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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