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To: azkathy

I believe multiple shots were fired.

We need the audio to understand how many and when.

The officer(s) in the forest may have fired when the vehicle appeared like it was going to hit the one officer, and would certainly explain some of it.

The shooting at Lavoy was probably not just two or three shots. In the two or three seconds where his shooting unfolded, many shots could have been fired.

Any of those shots could have wounded Ryan.

We simply do not have the audio to play with the video and that will be critical in the future court proceedings.

My point is simple. Lavoy did not have to die. 1st, the whole take down did not have to occur...and the managers at the Federal, State, and local level are responsible for that.

Second, Lavoy made the decisions he made. Ten people were involved on the side of the Bundy’s. If those officers had blood in their eyes and simply wanted to kill and silence them...they easily could have killed them all. Yet they did not.

If Lavoy had done the things the others did...he would be alive. when he got out, the sure recourse for him for safety was to immediately get down and lay prone in the snow. You can bet those officers were yelling at him to do that.

But he did not.

I believe Lavoy felt he could get out of that truck and talk reason to the officers from his perspective, demanding that he be allowed to talk to the Sheriff.

But his actions at a time when those officers believed he was a deadly threat (and his nearly hitting the one officer will be used to establish that...you can count on that), were simply completely ill advised and ultimately fatal.

I can see how the 18 year old girl in the truck would feel exactly as she does.

But looking at the video...and presuming it is authentic...we have a broader view of what happened.

Based on seeing it, I do not believe Lavoy was murdered in cold blood by those officers. They were performing according to their training and responding to the situation as it was presented to them.

I know some people will not like that conclusion on my part. Emotions are high, and understandably so.

But I have been involved in these types of protests in the past. If to me there was the slightest hint of “murder” or of gross negligence or mishandling at the scene, I would be the first to say so...and my own record over these many years, is enough indication of it.

In this case...I simply do not see it.

Sad. Tragic. The loss of a good man, a good father, grandfather, and good American. And plenty of reason to hold the people who ordered this culpable for it too. but not murder, or intentional, willful gunning down of Lavoy.

We need to continue to protest, and we need to make sure Lavoy’s death is not in vain. What he and the Bundys were protesting NEEDS to be protested, just like we did at Klamath, OR, Jarbidge, NV, and elsewhere.


454 posted on 01/30/2016 8:32:00 AM PST by Jeff Head (Semper Fidelis - Molon Labe - Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: Jeff Head
Second, Lavoy made the decisions he made. Ten people were involved on the side of the Bundy's. If those officers had blood in their eyes and simply wanted to kill and silence them...they easily could have killed them all. Yet they did not.

I also forgot to post this:

from an article: "We also know that Ammon told his wife that the FBI agents were agitated about what had happened, that it didn't go right and they shouldn't have fired on him and killed him."

As you wrote, the officers didn't want to kill and silence them.

I think they "coonhounded". Just watch what they're all doing when Finicum comes BAILING around that blind curve.

464 posted on 01/30/2016 9:13:02 AM PST by kiryandil ("When Muslims in the White House are outlawed, only Barack Obama will be an outlaw")
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