“You haven’t answered my question.”
I believe that I have answered that question in several different ways, but for some reason you are not understanding the concept.
“The issue under debate is whether or not the right exist before it is recognized.”
That is why I emphasized that the citizenship is a right. This right which comprehends the bundle of civil rights that defines citizenship comes into existence at birth, assuming all the pre-conditions of parent citizenship and residence are met at birth.
“Does “the one” possess US citizenship at birth, or only after applying for it?”
The right to claim citizenship that came into existence at birth. The right to actually enjoy the current and future civil rights of the at birth right to citizenship is PERFECTED, i.e. completed, finished, executed, enforceable (Black, 6th ed), by satisfaction of the preconditions at the required time and place. In other words, the act of possession begins at birth and may or may not be fully completed, executed and be enforceable until a Consular Officer or other State Department official certifies the statutory requirements have been satisfied.
Using the word “possess” to define the difference, a analogy may be the right obtained by the acquisition and possession of a winning 100 million dollar lottery ticket, which gave the purchaser-possessor the right to claim the 100 million dollars, but the right to actually experience the enjoyment of the 100 million dollar winnings will not commence and be executed until certain conditions for redeeming the lottery ticket brings about the execution of the possessed right.
I don’t know how I can make it any clearer. The right of citizenship come into existence at birth, assuming the conditions for the existence of the right are present; but the rights of citizenship will remain unexecuted and unfulfilled until the rights possessed since birth have been settled and executed for the enjoyment of the possessor of those birth rights.
I understand the concepts very well. JD with honors. What I had been asking in simple terms you hadn't answered directly. E.g., hypo about all the conditions met, evidence not submitted to government, what do YOU find?
Now you bring up the notion of perfecting a right (which I also understand), and my question would be does the right exist before it is perfected?
I completely agree that citizenship of a foreign born person is presumed absent, and that any government ministerial function that depends on citizenship will be denied unless the paperwork is in order. That citizenship without the paperwork is hollow. But it exists, just the same, and you appear to agree that it exists (albeit in a useless form) before being recognized, certified, perfected, vested or whatever else you want to call "paperwork in order."
I've got to get on to some paying work. Hope you have a great day, and I look forward to interacting with you again.