Posted on 01/03/2016 4:13:57 PM PST by Kaslin
There’s a lot going on as regards the standoff in Oregon involving three of Cliven Bundy’s sons and the federal government. Jazz has already offered his opinion on the matter, and I mostly agree with him. But I’m not sure the term “armed troops†is appropriate to describe Bundy’s group because that suggests they’re in tactical gear. That doesn’t appear to be true based off what Ammon Bundy’s video posted on Facebook.
Standing for the rights of men & womenBREAKING! SHARE! Standing for the rights of Men & Women. Calling all freedom loving people to come to Harney County Oregon, come to the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The people are finally getting some good use out of a federal facility.
Posted by Bundy Ranch on Saturday, January 2, 2016
He repeated the comments to CNN this morning, calling his group "concerned citizens" who are acting to make sure ranchers have land for their children. It makes sense for Bundy to be concerned about ranchland, given what’s been going on with his father, but his methods are questionable because of how it can be spun in the media. The group showed foresight in taking over a remote, empty facility, but the way it’s being portrayed publicly is different. The Oregonian certainly seems to be ramping up the rhetoric against Bundy’s group (emphasis mine).
Among those joining Bundy in the occupation are Ryan Payne, U.S. Army veteran, and Blaine Cooper. Payne has claimed to have helped organize militia snipers to target federal agents in a standoff last year in Nevada. He told one news organization the federal agents would have been killed had they made the wrong move.
He has been a steady presence in Burns in recent weeks, questioning people who were critical of the militia’s presence. He typically had a holstered sidearm as he moved around the community.
The problem is The Oregonian is overblowing what Payne actually told Missoula Independent about what the “militia snipers” were doing during the Bundy Ranch situation last year.
“We locked them down,” Payne says. “We had counter-sniper positions on their sniper positions. We had at least one guy—sometimes two guys—per BLM agent in there. So, it was a complete tactical superiority. … If they made one wrong move, every single BLM agent in that camp would’ve died.”
That’s a lot different than the vague term "federal agents," and suggests Payne was just making sure his men could beat the Bureau of Land Management if it came to that. It’s also possible Payne was just bragging to puff up his own self-image, as BLM denied using snipers. But it’s ridiculous for The Oregonian to not provide better context to Payne’s statements. It’s also foolish to emphasize the fact Payne was armed whenever he talked to people. This may be a bit of a shock to the Left, but Oregon is an open carry state so Payne can carry a handgun without a problem. It doesn’t appear he was walking up to people, showing the gun and yelling, "WHO DO YOU SUPPORT?" but just carrying the gun for protection. It probably seemed odd to some people, but to others in rural Oregon it may not have been an issue. One thing which is an issue is the fact people in Burns don’t want Bundy’s group there. Bob Owens at BearingArms.com has a piece pointing this out, and how it could end up hurting more than helping.
These militiamen seem to be forgetting a key fact: a force opposing government only has a measure of philosophical legitimacy if the people want their support. In this instance, the Hammonds simply want to turn themselves on Monday and finish serving their time.
These militiamen need to stop attempting to hijack the Hammond case in an attempt to stay relevant, and let Dwight and Steven Hammond peacefully turn themselves in and finish serving their time.
So what happens if Bundy’s group decides to stick around and won’t leave the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge? Hopefully, not violence. This is where authorities need to show patience, and not do anything which ends up endangering the lives of anyone. Bundy’s group isn’t hurting people, and, at worst, is guilty of trespassing. Yes, they’re armed but that doesn’t mean SWAT needs to go rolling into the refuge or a drone be used to end the standoff. That would be the worst thing to happen, and bring back memories of Waco and Ruby Ridge. Federal and local authorities will just have to wait out Ammon Bundy and the rest of the occupiers, until they decide to leave. It may take a while, but it’s well worth it if no lives are lost. Bundy’s group needs to go, but having it happen through a haze of gun smoke and bodies is a bad idea.
But the state said they could not legally take the money so what did he do with all the money he saved by refusing to pay for grazing rights?
Like I said - had he donated it to charity I would be more sympathetic but he kept it.
Buy the land...? Why not a simple act of Congress to cede the land to a sovereign State?
Wideawake... Hmmm. No list of duties? That is all that the Constitution is. omg...
That may be true but it's the Fed's land. They (we) own it.
And the BLM and USFW have been harassing the Hammond’s for ten years,blocking aaccess to their own land and taking them to court over water rights (the Hammond’s won).
I posted the link to the story just above.
Make no mistake. The BLM is evil,evil,evil.
You my friend are clueless.
I don’t even know where to start.
Might want to learn about rewilding and agenda 21. This is all part of a huge agenda with the UN to empty rural lands ranchers are under attack every day in the west.
Ah, global conspiracy.
No, you don’t. It’s held in trust, that’s all.
Owned by fish and wildlife? They are a freaking agency of the government. They own squat. You do not want to,get me started about USFWS. I battled them last year, and I won.
Anybody that doesn't understand how the government works out west needs to look up what happened with the diversion of water from Pyramid Lake, Nevada. This isn't a new problem. It has been going on for a long time, since Hedley Lamar tried running the railroad through Rockridge.
You are ignorant of the facts...
Good for you!!! We are in a corridor here and working to secure our water rights, before they come....heh. We don’t have that much land but it makes us nervous. They’re all working the rewilding. Predator overload. Shut down ranching and hunting and probably fishing too.
Tell me your story if you like.
“It is much tougher to live off the land without any access to trade or commerce than most people think.
As long as the Feds maintain a tight perimeter, most of these guys will get very tired of playacting as frontiersmen after a few weeks.”
What a repulsive thing to say...some of those ranchers who are there have been ranching that area since the 1860’s. These are men and women who are honorable Americans. The cowardice you are trying to hide with your repulsive statements are not enough cover for you here.
Will tell you tomorrow. Need to go get some shut eye.,It’s a great story.
“They were not tried as terrorists. The 1996 Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act increased the penalty for destruction of Federal property by fire to a minimum of 5 years in prison, regardless of whether any act of terrorism was involved.”
Do you realize how stupid that sounds? The Hammonds have been put in double jeopardy...just denied the right of the second trial...they just had a federal man tell them they have to go back to prison. Even though they honorably served the sentence given to them by a court of law.
The Hammonds were exercising good land management practices...they were creating fire breaks during a dry year. Even the BLM was doing it.
I guess the main point each person has to ask themselves is do we honor a government that is involved in injustice and corruption who only follows the laws they want and ignore ones they don’t like? Or, are we going to say...enough is enough, we are Americans and we are free born. I lean towards the latter.
“I am a farm kid. There is a long standing argument between farmers and ranchers in the West. Ranchers used federal land they didn’t pay for, and killed a great many farmers who did have title and deed. Bundy didn’t have title. It wasn’t his land. His family used it for a long time, but they never owned it. Title and deed means something, even in the West.
But I come from farming stock, not ranching. A great many ranchers assume that they own every thing.”
Are you serious? Tell me you are kidding...no one is that stupid... you are just joking around right?
You are not alone.
I understand they are receiving truckloads of supplies late this evening.
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