You are welcome.
Posted on 01/03/2016 5:07:32 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans
FourtySeven, when this subject first raised it's head (this is merely where it has finally been coalesced into a full form), I thought to drag it into the RF, where the subject matter might be dissected completely, among folks who might be more invested in the subject at hand.
One of the things I am rather worried for, is that folks here will not do the heavy lifting necessary to winnow the evidence - Folks may not be willing to sit through the sermon, not to mention the several sermons one might consider necessary to get a reasonable opinion of the man's position. Since Cruz is a traveling preacher, it isn't as easy as just pulling down the credz of a single church, or denomination, to establish his own beliefs or his credentials. I think the only way to do the man justice is to listen to him across several sermons, to see if he is in fact delivering a Christian message.
Part of the problem (and the reason this particular sermon has been selected for his destruction) is the church this particular sermon was delivered to - It's a bit of a mega-church thing, with a Pentecostal/Praise-Evangelical feel, and a Messianic bend. That alone is going to weird-out folks that are used to a more staid and orderly event. It has an altar-call, prophetic word, and laying-on of hands... Things the Spirit-Filled will take in stride, but which will feel awfully strange to your average Reformed, Lutheran, or Catholic congregant.
I can understand why church-lady types (ala Dana Carvey) might wax apoplectic. But take that sermon out of that hall, and it becomes a whole lot more benign... Which is why I would encourage listening to several arbitrary sermons delivered by Cruz, in different settings.
**Note to all: As a matter of disclosure, I myself am a Christian Messianic.
The main points that seem lost in GPH’s post, and really the only ones that could disqualify Cruz to anyone serious about his faith are: Does Cruz himself embrace this “Dominionism”? Does he (Cruz) reject the Trinity? Does he embrace any kind of “prosperity gospel”?
That is the point in fact - This is really just a rather blatant attempt to smear Cruz with his 'crazy old man'. But I think the way forward is to actually listen to the old man and see if he is in fact 'crazy' in the first place. I think that best inoculates Ted Cruz against this attack, even though it doesn't touch upon his own beliefs at all (which should in fact be the point)... And it could be said that the apple does not fall far from the tree, or the horse, if you get my drift - So intrinsically, proving Rafael inevitably credits the root that Ted grew from.
And having listened to Rafael in depth, with Ted's own faith aside, I would declare that Rafael as his father surely had a powerful impact upon his son. Bravo, Rafael.
I have listened to several of his sermons (somewhere between 10-20, I suppose), delivered in both churches and political settings... I find him somewhat repetitive, but enjoyable - One of the things that comes roaring out consistently is a deep love for this country and it's Christian foundation - A point of patriotism that is almost uncomfortable woven into a Christian message, but inevitably TRUE... And something he speaks perfectly to, coming to us from Cuba.
In that I find a rather broad form of dominionism - He does encourage American Christians to go forth and take back that which is undeniably their heritage - And a broad form of prosperity gospel - That America prospered within her Christian heritage, and can do so again. But I don't believe any American Christian would fault him on those points.
As to the rest of the screed originally posted - Much ado about nothing... I would point you to Springfield Reformer's post wrt 'Transfer', which I see as not only accurate but apparent on it's face. To include the 'almost association' with Hinn...
All aspects of our society have fallen under control of folks who are generally liberal and tending toward atheism. To want to recapture the institutions that we built is hardly dominionism. Politics is downstream from culture. If liberals control the culture, it’s idiotic to expect our politicians to act conservative if liberals control.
Ted Cruz gets it.
Cruz or lose. America.
That is amazing research on your part.
My thinking too, just because there are some labeling Rafael crazy, heretic or whatever doesn't mean he is. And just who is it that is labeling Rafael these things and trying to smear his son Ted by doing so? We have GPH doing so and having a good idea now what GPH beliefs are (which he wants hidden) it is likely not Rafael who is the crazy one or the heretic.
If anything GPH has given me a more favorable view of Rafael, now knowing what GPH believes about Christians. I for one will be giving Rafael a honest and fair look at. It is easy to smear someone with the crazy or heretic label and sometimes it is the one doing the smearing who is the crazy one and or the heretic. At this point I lean towards GPH as the crazy heretic not Rafael. At least Rafael doesn't hide and is not ashamed of his denomination or place in Christianity. GPH is too quick to label who are heretics and who is in error and without any sound biblical evidence, and that is most often a sign of one who is not in Christ, an accuser of the brethren.
As for Beth Moore, she has moved on and is no longer at First Baptist of Houston
On what basis does he make this claim? What does he mean by that? That she's not a staff member? Never claimed she was. I said she "teaches" at 1st Baptist and has for at least 29 years, as my link demonstrates (they're THANKING her for TEACHING for that period! That link was from last year). Yes, she has her own separate ministry, but is still in the Houston's Baptist family. If there was any sort of cutting of ties that SR claims, it must have been quite recent, as I still see Simulcasts of Live preaching advertised on Houston's 1st Baptist website as of September, and her name is listed as of December as a "link" under their Women's Ministry page, and another link I found referenced "interdenominational Bible studies". But supposedly, according to Springfield, he must have done some research somewhere that made him suspect that she is "unwelcome". LOL.
But after basically claiming all these things, he then goes on to defend her with the "Well, she still holds scripture higher than her "revelations"! Though the fact she is giving "Thus saith the lord" revelations, and is teaching the things she is teaching, I just have to laugh at the usual, pitiful apologia and dissembling of Springfield. The links I have given on the subject, I believe, are sufficient. There's no need to go into the minutia of answering every one of SR's usual assertions.
Returning to Fourty Seven:
but to me at first blush this doesn’t seem that significant a criticism as it seems to fall into, ironically, the kind of debates we have in the Religion forum
Teaching a theology of "wealth redistribution" from the wicked to the righteous is mainstream Religion Forum fare? I don't believe it. The other claims of your post also fall to pieces under common sense!
Oh a FPM fan ... here ya go!
We too, for now, seem to have a prophet. Whatever his flaws and weaknesses, Donald Trump has thrust the problems of lax immigration policies and weak enforcement of immigration laws back into the national conversation. Like Enoch Powell, politicians from both parties have tried to marginalize him. But in the age of the Internet, YouTube, and cable news, the citizens who agree with Trump can voice their approval more loudly than in Powell’s day. And they delight in the rough treatment he gives to immigration hacks like Univision’s Jorge Ramos, whom Trump tossed out of a news conference. Let’s just hope that a critical mass of people is listening, and that the Republicans embrace Trump’s warnings on illegal immigration instead of demonizing him.
(some sound advise for you there Smokie’J from a source you like too :) )
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/259963/prophets-without-honor-europe-immigration-and-bruce-thornton
DEPORT them all and their babies, build a yuge wall and get Americans back to work! - Donald Trump in a nutshell on illegal aliens ...your spin is not working here smokie!
‘accuser of the brethren.’
Now the OP is Satan himself? How on earth is that a Christian attitude/judgment???
Thanks, that's all I ask. Let the chips fall where they may thereafter. I object to the destruction of the man's reputation on the basis of hearsay. And I think you'll find out why he is such a sought-after speaker.
You're preachin' to the choir, FRiend...
Ted Cruz gets it.
Yes he does. And so does his dad.
Thanks for the reply.
But that isn’t dominionism, even “broadly speking.” It’s recognizing that the scum stole our culture, our schools, our courts, our commerce, our politics and our country. AND WE WANT IT BACK!!
If not Satan, than a high-ranking minion.
You keep saying that the US would not be in the Iran deal without a Senate vote, that the Senate gave up their right to vote on the Iran treaty when they passed Corker.
As I’ve said repeatedly: without Corker the Senate wouldn’t have had a chance to vote.
You are welcome.
So, because everyone does it is ok with you.
“So your guess is as good as mine, and I refuse to nickel and dime Cruz on this”
According to Cruz’s own language after he voted for the bill, it is more serious than just nickels and dimes.
Limbaugh mentioned today that the Middle East is in flames today because of Obama’s allying with Iran.
He is accusing the brethren...what part of that are you not understanding?
satan uses people for much of what he does including accusing the brethren.
This just shows how little most of the people bothered to attend the OP. Sure, you can have a crazy dad. But Cruz met with Larry Huch with that crazy dad for the purpose of winning a Dominionist's endorsement. And then Rafael, obviously as part of Cruz's campaign, appeared at Huch's church and gave a Dominionist sermon, where the pastor spoke about Ted Cruz openly, declaring that they were, essentially, father like son. From Larry Huch via one of my links:
"You know, during the elections, and it just hit me as Rafael was up there and he was saying, this is the anointed by God - when I got a phone call, would I come to a meeting to meet Rafael Cruz and Ted Cruz, Tis and I had already received about 10 phone calls asking if we would get behind a candidate. Could we come and, could we come and speak at your church - one after another.
And when we were asked by some friends to come to this house, we said we'd not only meet Ted but we'd meet Rafael. Before I ever met Ted, I met Rafael. And I knew that if the son was like the dad, we could trust him to be our senator.
Amen"
Generally I ignore stupid posts, but this seems like a good point to reinforce.
Judgment is God’s purview. He is the only omniscient One.
But if you want to take it upon yourself to judge others, just be aware that in whatever manner you judge, you will be judged in turn by the same standards. Me, I prefer to leave the judging to God. He’s just, but He’s also merciful. That is a blessing.
You have bourn false witness.
Repent.
Surely you know the Bible. It never speaks of multiple accusers of the brethren. It very specifically speaks of only *one* accuser of the brethren—singular—and he is clearly and unequivocally identified. Note: it’s not the OP.
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