Posted on 12/31/2015 12:34:52 PM PST by presidio9
Cecil’s Law
It may not be sporting but it is not stupid or wasteful... if you raise animals for any length of time you will have to at some point cull certain ones, usually males, or else you’ll have a disaster... in the wild they will fight and kill one another but in captivity if you let nature take its course you’ll lose everything because territory for new males is lacking, they would be constantly tearing each other up to get to the females and the biggest victims will be the victims and the immature.
There’s a reason why dairy farmers keep one bull [if any, since they usually buy semen to avoid the hassle] , a reason you only keep one rooster [if any] per 12-14 hens, a reason you geld surplus stallions. The same principles apply to raising antelope, lions or ducks... anything polygamous.
You have to kill the surplus and doing so in a profitable way only makes sense to support your herd. Having some dork shoot them and eat the meat is more humane and financially sound than herding them into a truck and driving them, terrified, to the meatpacker.
What is cruel about shooting an animal?
It happens hundreds of thousands of times everyday in packing plants.
What is cruel is Game Wardens imposing their world view on private citizens, and using the Power of Big Government to do so, essentially using guns to bring private game reserves to heel.
You don’t see the irony of Government Workers using guns to stop citizens shooting animals?
Nearly all hunting is done on private land in this state, so the game warden can go to private land to make sure there is no poaching going on, all hunters have a license to hunt, that no protected or endangered animals are being hunted. And they are always called by someone when there is poaching going on or a suspicion of animal cruelty-that includes canned hunts, as well as dog or chicken fighting, no matter whose property it is on.
My grandfather and uncles went to chicken fights, drank and made cash bets with the other area ranchers who were there-it was-it is illegal and is fairly common in remote SW Texas-a part of the ranchero culture I don’t agree with-chickens are supposed to be kept for eggs and meat, not bloodsport.
Mexican style rodeo is legal, the events are more dangerous than the Americanized version, and there are plenty of arenas out here in remote areas that host those events-if a guy wants to prove how macho he is, let him ride a bull or an unbroken horse in one of those events and see if he comes out uninjured...
Quite a bit of apples and oranges going on in this discussion.
The state has the right to regulate wildlife, and I think overall, they do a good job. I don’t think that imported game owned by a citizen qualify as wildlife, IMO they are overstepping their bounds.
If you want to argue that hunting is inhumane, I simply disagree and I don’t think cock fighting applies to this conversation.
First of all, let me say that I have hunted with a firearm since I was 9-and shooting a trapped animal is not “hunting”-it is just slaughtering an animal and to that point here at least, game animals are looked at differently than domesticated food animals. Here, a canned hunt is when a trapped or caged wild animal is killed because it is almost always done by some fool who has more money than sense, has never hunted anything and so shoots the poor beast multiple times instead of aiming carefully and dropping it humanely with one shot. Also, hunters who do canned hunts only want a trophy head for the wall-not meat to eat-and that is not “sport”.
Game is “hunted”-meaning you go into the animal’s territory either stalk it or you go to ground in a blind and wait for it to come by, and you make a clean shot, and take your kill from the field. trapping in a pen or cage and killing a wild animal, usually in a manner that causes unnecessary suffering is animal cruelty in this state-rated right up there with dog and chicken fighting.
Locker plants and slaughter houses, large or small are regulated to prevent cruelty-kills must be quick and clean. Causing an animal to suffer is cruelty, and the law does not split hairs on where that happens, even if it is in your living room.
Our game wardens are not JBTs-I’m sorry if they are where you live-here, they are our neighbors, friends and even relatives-they uphold the game laws WE voted for, especially those against poaching. They also provide kids with classes for safe hunting, wildlife identification, wilderness safety, etc. If a landowner shoots a poacher here, it is likely nothing will happen to them, so some people don’t wait for the game warden before taking matters into their own hands.
Since I grew up on a ranch, I’ve hunted most of my life and enjoy doing so, and I’m especially fond of venison and dove meat anytime I have the opportunity to go out to get it, I obviously don’t think hunting is cruel-what I’m saying is that a canned shoot is not “hunting”, since no one goes out there and looks for the game.
Most exotic game ranches have the animals running around in the woods in the naturally wild state, and hunters go out and stalk, or get into blinds-a “real” hunt-as it should be. They can do that till the cows come home and as long as everyone has a hunting license that is great-it is only when the animals are penned or caged and killed that the law says it is cruelty, which seems perfectly logical to me.
I mentioned cock/chicken fighting since it is considered cruelty as far as the laws here see it, as is the canned shoot.
I think I am tracking you now.
I’m only familiar with the fenced ranch hunts. Never done it, but not against it.
Paying to shoot an animal in a cage may or may not be animal cruelty, but someone that would pay to do so probably has some personal issues.
Here, a canned shoot is not considered “hunting”, so it is put in with the chicken and dog fights as animal cruelty-killing a trapped/penned/caged animal in a way that causes unnecessary suffering.
All ranches and most other properties are fenced here, but the native deer can’t be trapped. When I was a kid, Axis deer were exotics on game ranches hunted for a lot of money-but deer being deer, some of them escaped here and there, bred with each other and our white tail deer, multiplied like crazy and now all our hunting licenses have an Axis deer tag-proves that nothing can be confined forever before it becomes available to everyone with a hunting license.
I’ve never done any exotic hunting-don’t have the money, and can’t see the point of paying a fortune to hunt on someone’s property for a deer or antelope from another country when venison is still venison, whatever the price.
In my opinion, there is something going on with a person who shoots a penned or caged animal-they have some serious issues, whether they paid or not-I would not have anything to do with a person like that..
I buy my meat from a local butcher shop that is connected to a slaughterhouse-free range, grass fed beef and pork only, no unnatural hormones-so yes, that cow or hog was walking around free in a manner of speaking-and a cow and a pig are domesticated food animals-not wild ones.
I was brought up on a small working ranch-I’m quite familiar with how slaughtering is done-and it does not involve shooting a terrified trapped wild animal multiple times. Since I don’t have room for my own chickens right now, I get them-and eggs-fresh from a neighbor-humanely killed with one blow of an axe-and yes, I have done that before, many times. The chickens are free range, too-most of us out here do not eat food from factory farms-it is unhealthy.
I do my hunting the “real” way-by either going to look for the animal, or by getting into a brush blind and waiting to see if it comes by...
Trophy hunters in general are bad about leaving game in the field, taking only the head for a mount, which I think is wasteful-but I was taught not to go hunting something unless you are going to eat it, or unless it is a threat to you and yours-like a poisonous snake.
I only use herbs and other natural remedies-no drugs-but I’ve never understood the notion of supposedly magical cures made from the parts of exotic animals-it just seems stupid and wasteful-why not use some other powdered horn instead-maybe one from a non-endangered animal that is good to eat?
Let me get this straight, when true hunters shot game, they drop it dead with one kill shot. No injured animals running off and needing to be tracked to make sure they don’t suffer
OK.
Got it, then it does, in fact make sense that ‘hunters’ not be allowed to use game farms, as they aren’t that good..
And it does make sense that property owners shouldn’t be allowed to use the property as they see fit if the game wardens are your neighbors.
Or did the voters vote to steal the property owners of their right to use their property as they see fit? You weren’t clear on that.
Chasing down a wounded animal in a hunt to kill it is a reality for any hunter with a sense of decency-you do not leave a wounded animal to die in a bad way-it is inhumane. No one is “perfect”-but the goal is to kill-not wound-if there is a doubt about the range or the angle, I don’t take the shot-but that is a personal decision, and the way I was taught to hunt by my family.
I said quite clearly that I don’t have a problem with exotic or any other game being hunted on ranches as long as the animals are roaming loose and hunted by either pursuit or from a blind-that is called “hunting”-but not caged or shot in a pen with no chance at escape-a canned shoot, which is not sport of any kind. That is called “animal cruelty” and subjects the lease owner to fines and other unpleasant consequences-it doesn’t have a damned thing to do with where the game warden lives, or who knows him/her. The tradition of “hunting” is strong in this state-”animal cruelty” is not.
I don’t support any property owner using their property for canned shooting any more than I support them hosting dog or cock/chicken fights on it-they are all cruel to animals. No one stole anyone’s property rights, any more than having a meth lab on a secluded area at the back of their property does-and yes, that happens a lot here-maybe that should be okay, too? I’m somewhat libertarian when it comes to what you can do on your own place, but I wouldn’t support that, either...
"Canned hunting" puts money into improving habitat for all the wildlife. In fact, it pays well enough that people forego cattle ranching and start raising wildlife, which is generally better for vegetation management because different herbivores tend to compete for different forage. That's why game ranching works while "protecting" the game under the park model has failed. By comparison, eco-tourism does not put much money into stewardship. American hunters are regarded as customers, while the tourists are seen as imperious users.
In a way, exotic game ranches here in the US function as risk mitigating refugia for wildlife that might otherwise be subject to diseases, wars, or simply hungry people. They could be a source for restocking after pandemic. Hence, a way to fund them, however crude and stupid, is one way to offset those risks that also provides an opportunity for scientific study.
Maintaining a population of those exotic breeds is something many of those game ranches are really into-especially with animals from countries where people don’t know/care that management and conservation is the only way they will always have those tasty antelope steaks-the really reputable ones have scientific breeding programs.
Considering that a day hunt for just an exotic deer bred right on one of those ranches starts at around $4-$6K, that provides an opportunity for whatever study, breeding program or re-stocking could be needed. They also offer tours that are well worth the $10 or so bucks. The reputable game ranches have never offered canned hunts, even before it was called cruelty.
While I concur with most of what you said here, you speak of "reputable" as if it was an objective, discrete, and static standard. I would bet that there is more graduation among them as to what constitutes such dissolving into some serious complexity and situational application of ethics. It is likely that one would have difficulty defining a specification, one of the reasons I prefer addressing that as a mix of products and services.
While you have a valid point on the defining of “reputable” as not having an absolute standard, there is one that-for me, at least-defines it pretty well-several game ranches that offered canned shoots had some very wealthy customers who flew in on private planes, insisted on absolute discretion, secrecy and brought their own security-AKA body guards-they were the capos of the drug cartels in Mexico and further south. I wouldn’t consider those game ranches reputable even if they weren’t offering canned shoots to anyone...
I never cease to be impressed with how low people can go.
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