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To: PGR88
If you think walking away from Europe will make us safer, you have not learned the lessons of history. Despite the fall of the SU, thanks in part to the existence of NATO, Russian imperialism is not dead. Putin is trying to restore the old Soviet Union.

I lived in Poland during the days of Solidarnosc' and martial law and visited afterwards when the Wall came down. I know what the Communists can do to a society. Putin is a KGB thug who must be stopped. His seizure of Crimea is an example. If Ukraine had been part of NATO, this would not have happened.

Yes, NATO must share more of the costs of its defense, but walking away by dissolving NATO will create a vacuum of power that will be filled by other, more sinister forces. It will also lessen US influence, which is not a good thing. The West must stand together.

Article 5 of the NATO treaty has only been invoked once, i.e., when the US was attacked on 9/11. This is why NATO was in charge of the effort in Afghanistan.

61 posted on 11/24/2015 9:51:19 AM PST by kabar
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To: kabar

You can not defend the world, and $19 Trillion in US debt will prove that point.

The underpinnings of the Soviet Union are GONE. You are fighting old wars.

Putin may be a bastard, but he has simply returned to old-style national power politics. His country’s economy is the size of Italy - let Germany and France, if they have the will, oppose him.

Right now, NATO is simply providing protection for EU bankers, Germany’s control of the EU and the fantasy’s of unlimited Muslim migration which will change Europe forever. Time to consider new threats, not old ones.


66 posted on 11/24/2015 10:06:12 AM PST by PGR88
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To: kabar; PGR88

PGR88’s future (walking away from our commitments) virtually guarantees a significant nuclear war in the next generation (approximately.)

While I’m in absolutely in favor of individuals being well armed to protect themselves, the concept extended to a worldwide nuclear arms race, which WILL occur if the US continues to slide into weakness, is dangerous in the extreme. The US needs to emphatically lead a strong NATO, not quiver in fear as our allies dither.

If PGR88 thinks we have problems now, wait until a big radiation cloud settles over us. We don’t even have to be / might well not be directly involved.


190 posted on 11/25/2015 12:48:22 AM PST by Paul R.
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