Turkey is a member of NATO. Erdogan was elected to office democratically by the Turkish people. Do you have a source for the assertion that he wants to "begin the caliphate with the center of it in Turkey"?
I am not supportive of Erdogan, but Turkey has a right to protect its sovereignty.
As far as allowing Putin to get away with crap he’s directing against us? Or his seizure of Crimea and going into Ukraine tell me, who has caused more world-wide destruction/instability Putin or the combo of Bush/mainly Obama with their excursions into Iraq, Egypt, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Syria, and cuddling up with Iran and Turkey I would have to say the US has caused more destabilization in the World than in other country in the World at this point.
So America is the problem? So we deserved the two bombings of the WTC, our two embassies in East Africa, the USS Cole, the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, Kobar Towers, etc.? Do we deserve these attacks? Are we supposed to absorb them without response?
If we had been serious under Bush in actually eradicating Islam we wouldn’t be in this mess right now. We would have wiped Saudi Arabia off the map 1st. And we would have never even considered electing someone with the name Barack Hussein Obama.
Wipe out Islam with 1.3 billion followers? You are madder than a March hare.
Turkey is a member of NATO. Erdogan was elected to office democratically by the Turkish people. Do you have a source for the assertion that he wants to "begin the caliphate with the center of it in Turkey"?I am not supportive of Erdogan, but Turkey has a right to protect its sovereignty.
Let's first stipulate that nothing discussed here really makes any difference at all. It is not much different than arguing over Football or Music taste.
Having said that, I think that saying: Erdogan was elected to office democratically by the Turkish people is ridiculous. It is leftist speak. It is verbatim what we heard about Hugo Chavez and Castro and the Sandinistas and countless other leftist slime. It was used to legitimatize the Taliban. More recently it is what Dumbo and Hillary say about The Moslem Brotherhood. And I guarantee that somewhere in the world, right this minute, someone is using that remark to legitimize Dumbo himself.
We certainly do not know any such thing as a fact. But even if it were a fact, that has never been the traditional American test of legitimacy. Rather, the question is whether this or that "ruler" is in our self-interest. I think he is not, as do many others around here. Furthermore, "< leftist du jour > was elected to office democratically by the < third world hellhole > people" is exactly what we must avoid going forward because the end result will be a legitimatized fundamentalist Islamic regime in every country they exist. Why? Because their sheeple, like our own sheeple, outnumber their rational people by orders of magnitude.
This should be obvious to all by now as we ourselves are standing on the precipice of Idiocracy right this very minute. Folks who really want to believe in the fantasy of majority rule are about to taste it for themselves here in the USA within very few coming elections when the parasites finally outvote the hosts. There's a movie out there called 'This Is The End'. Think of it as a sequel to the great 'Idiocracy'.
Those who want to use "democratically elected" as the benchmark for legitimacy should begin preparing for the death of Egypt and everywhere else. Those great monuments to early civilization, flawed as it was, survived thousands of years. But I see no way they, or us, can survive 'Democratic Islamicism'. Nor can we survive 'Democratic Socialism'. Once the "democratically elected" insurance policy is invoked, according to modern political correctness, it is time to shut down criticism and discussion.
Finally, there is a smidgen of naivete about Turkey going on in this thread. It has always been living on the razor's edge of toppling into the Islamic abyss, my entire lifetime it has been like this. They're the butt of more jokes than anyone except for Poland :-) Now, thanks to Obama probably helping this turd get "elected", this lackey's reckless shootdown and attempt to drag NATO in ( we cannot really rule out the possibility that Dumbo or Kerry whispered to the Turk to escalate this to change the subject from getting ISIS to getting Assad ), it is almost certainly going to have something occur there shortly, at least I hope so. Probably a coup, followed by the predictable labeling of the temporary military gov as a right-wing junta decried by the Western lefties. I believe that absent an overthrow we are worse off.
P.S. I'll warm up to Turkey when they give us back Constantinople. This would be a wonderful gesture of peace towards the West because as we all know, Islam is a religion of peace.
We have been playing cat and mouse games with the Russians (Soviets) since before the end of WWII. We have done it with aircraft, with spies, with ships, with submarines and with squads of special forces. It is a serious game and there is a well-established protocol. Whatever it is, when you detect an incursion you prosecute with all that you think it takes and chase the other side out of your claimed space. But these single unit on single unit skirmishes around the edges did not go hot because both sides knew that they were not worth starting WWIII over.
The Turks just broke those rules and Oblimey said Ogoodey! He did not express the least bit of sorrow for the loss of two aircraft or the violations of the Geneva convention in killing pilots and shooting down rescue helicopters.
Turkey might want to think real hard about ever again locking a fighter born radar on a Russian plane, that is in Syrian airspace. That is a deliberate hostile act under anyone's rules of engagement, exacerbated by Turkey's demonstrated willingness to shoot.
And, this is not a cat and mouse game. The Russians are in Syria on serious business.
So was Assad
***Do you have a source for the assertion that he wants to “begin the caliphate with the center of it in Turkey”?***
*** So we deserved the two bombings of the WTC, our two embassies in East Africa, the USS Cole, the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, Kobar Towers, etc.? Do we deserve these attacks?***
No you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said any of these things.
We should have bombed Saudi Arabia after 9/11 because that is the source of all of this Wahhabi, Sunni terrorists crap is from. They get their funding from there, and that's where the majority of the terrorists who struck us came from. That's where the funding for all these mosques around the world that preach hate get their message and funding from. They didn't get it from Iraq or Afghanistan. If Bush had been serious he would have cut off the head of the snake. But to many dirty politicians are owned by them, including the Bushes.
Did I miss something? Did we go into Libya and overthrow Qaddafi for some past terrorist attack? What about Egypt. Did we interfere in their sovereign government you know, the one like Turkey, help the Muslim Brotherhood overthrow Mubarak because of some past terror attack seeking justice? And what about Yemen. Did Obama and Hillary help overthrow that government to get them back for the U. S. S. Cole? You and I both know those two don't give a damn about our soldiers. Turkey should have never been allowed to join NATO. No Muslim country should have been allowed in NATO. And because of that, you're about to see the end of it.