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To: kabar
You sound like the communists who used to attack NATO. How much personal experience do you have with NATO?

Sorry, but name-calling isn't an argument. I probably have as much NATO experience as you do. Let me ask - what Is your justification for the continued existence of NATO? Russia itself, or is it Putin? If its Putin, why was NATO then expanded in the 1990's after the fall of the Soviet Union - When Russia was on its knees? If it is Russia itself, then you are saying the country is inherently evil regardless of the government or whether they are Marxist or not - and therefore never can be trusted, and will always be an enemy. The logical conclusion of that position then is that Russia must be emasculated to change its natural inclinations towards evil. BTW - that's exactly what Putin tells the Russians is the US and NATO's ultimate goals. So yours is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'll say it again - Western Europe, to source of Western Christian Culture, is committing social suicide, under the cover of the present monetary and security system of which NATO is a part. This time, it is not caused by Russia.

111 posted on 11/24/2015 11:18:28 AM PST by PGR88
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To: PGR88
Sorry, but name-calling isn't an argument.

That isn't name calling. I am comparing your criticisms of NATO with those used by the Communists during the Cold War.

I probably have as much NATO experience as you do.

I served in one NATO command--AFSOUTH Naples. And you?

Let me ask - what Is your justification for the continued existence of NATO? Russia itself, or is it Putin?

The Parties to this Treaty reaffirm their faith in the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments. They are determined to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law. They seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area. They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation of peace and security. They therefore agree to this North Atlantic Treaty

why was NATO then expanded in the 1990's after the fall of the Soviet Union - When Russia was on its knees?

With the liberation of many European nations after the fall of the Soviet Union, many of these countries lobbied heavily to join NATO to preserve their new found freedom. They realized that one day Russia would get back off its knees and seek to enslave them once again. Russia was actually invited be an observer nation.

If it is Russia itself, then you are saying the country is inherently evil regardless of the government or whether they are Marxist or not - and therefore never can be trusted, and will always be an enemy.

Another strawman. Russia has suffered under authoritarian rule for centuries. Unlike Japan, which had the benefit of benign US occupation, Russia has been unable to throw off the yoke of despotism. They need a democratic reformation. They are not a permanent enemy. Russians share a similar European culture and heritage. The Communists made the gulf wider and Putin has not helped.

BTW - that's exactly what Putin tells the Russians is the US and NATO's ultimate goals. So yours is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Most don't believe that crap. They see what is going on in the rest of the world. They can travel much more freely than before. The Russian people don't see Europe as the enemy. There are plenty of economic ties.

I'll say it again - Western Europe, to source of Western Christian Culture, is committing social suicide, under the cover of the present monetary and security system of which NATO is a part. This time, it is not caused by Russia.

Another strawman. Who said the decline of Europe or the US for that matter, is due to Russia? NATO existed before the EU. The US and Canada are members of NATO.

129 posted on 11/24/2015 12:15:28 PM PST by kabar
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