[USAF80]

Russian hardware is crap when it’s used by third rate armies like Saddams.

[pfflier]

True. But those "third rate armies" get all the training and tactics indoctrination from the Russians along with the hardware. They employ their assets like the Russians would. The russian hardware has a very good shootdown record against unarmed airliners, not so much against F-15s.

I know it's dangerous to underestimate an enemy and we did in Korea and Vietnam when it came to soviet flying hardware.

Still, the Russian hardware generally suffers from design and reliability problems. The Mig-15 in Korea had severe control problems at transsonic speeds. The MiG 17 and Mig 21 suffered from range limitations.

The MiG 17 in Vietnam flew rings around our first line fighter, the F-4 but was eventually mastered by tactics. There, we also created our own problems with the dogma of BVR missile only equipped aircraft and some very lousy tactics along Thud Ridge.