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To: Longbow1969

Isn’t it clear that Putin’s master plan is that he wants to win in Syria, destroy ISIS, and then divide Iraq with their buddy Iran?

Additionally, though Putin doesn’t have our best interests in mind, don’t you think replacing US influence in Iraq/Syria (we’ve already lost it anyway) with Russia’s influence will then make Russia the lightening rod with the Muzzies and, over time, will lessen the angst against America among their primitive 7th century culture?

Granted, having “influence” in the Middle East has strategic value and we’re losing that, but at the same time, Middle East “influence” has ALWAYS come with a heavy price. Isn’t it better to let someone else bear that price?

Comments?


89 posted on 10/12/2015 12:54:12 PM PDT by AlanGreenSpam (Obama: The First 'American IDOL' President - sponsored by Chicago NeoCom Thugs)
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To: AlanGreenSpam
Isn’t it clear that Putin’s master plan is that he wants to win in Syria, destroy ISIS, and then divide Iraq with their buddy Iran?

Sure, it's also clear that China wants to dominate the South China Sea and the entire region if it can get away with it. Do you want to cede that territory as well?

Additionally, though Putin doesn’t have our best interests in mind, don’t you think replacing US influence in Iraq/Syria (we’ve already lost it anyway) with Russia’s influence will then make Russia the lightening rod with the Muzzies and, over time, will lessen the angst against America among their primitive 7th century culture?

No, I don't think we should cede anything to Putin and I find this sort of isolationist/defeatist attitude from conservatives depressing. Whatever one thinks of how Iraq went down and whether we should have ever gone there, we know the surge worked and had we retained a reasonable force in Iraq we would still be dominant in that country since it is the US who would have the bulk of the firepower and ability to project force. The fact that Obama destroyed everything that was accomplished is not reason to give up.

Why do you assume Russia is going to get tied down in any way? They will sell arms to anyone, and any Islamic uprising in their own country will be met with crushing force (something that we are too timid to do). Russia really isn't that strong again yet, but ceding territory to them anywhere just emboldens Putin to grab more of the Ukraine and try his hand at causing trouble in the Baltic states and maybe breaking NATO (which is his goal and a reasonable one from his point of view).

Led by a President with any balls and a reasonable understanding of foreign affairs, there is no reason we couldn't have stared down Putin long ago - possibly before he even had a chance to grab up the Crimea.

Like it or not, we are an empire. We don't like to call it that, but that is what we are - essentially a largely benevolent empire. We are also a very rich nation, despite all the damage Obama has done. Much of that wealth is due to keeping the current order intact. A lot of the complaining I hear from some conservatives and lately Trump, for example, is utterly misguided and lacking any understanding of the history behind many of our decisions. We are not defending Japan for the fun of it, we defend Japan mostly because we don't want them to become a potent world power again (though we are gradually asking them to reassert themselves as we are increasingly broke and weaker militarily). The same is true of Germany. We also get the use of bases which allow us to project force around the world in a way that no other country can.

Russia will sell arms to anyone. Hell, they'd probably sell arms to ISIL is if they could. There are no moral constraints to really anything their government does because the people are largely and increasingly excluded from the process. I have no problem with Russia being proud and strong, nor do I have an issue with China doing the same. But not at our expense. Give an inch, your opponents will take a mile. Everytime we step back in the world, something comes in to fill that void. If we were talking about another relatively benevolent government/empire, I'd have much less problem sharing the load - but Putin is most definitely NOT in that category. He is a strategic adversary at best, an outright enemy at worse. We should not cede the middle east to Russia or anyone else - especially considering they are supporting absolute enemies of ours such as Iran, Hezbollah, etc.

Thank you for the thoughtful question by the way. I think I get your points and they are a reasonable basis for debate. I hope I've at least answered your broader point.

Cheers

97 posted on 10/12/2015 1:39:39 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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