...His listeners and Christians then and now realize there is consciousness after death because that is what the bible teaches-...
Well, that is the point I have been discussing, so I sincerely apologize for misunderstanding and misinterpreting your statements. If you realize that there is consciousness after death then I have no argument with you on that point. Whatever other truths the passage contains, I just think Luke 16 also confirms the reality of consciousness after death. (Among many other passages, I might add.)
And so, whatever other lessons the passage is teaching, I would disagree with you that the passage is based on a superstitious Babylonian myth, though. That seems so far-fetched and unnecessary to whatever Jesus was illustrating that I cannot presently manage enough suspension of disbelief to entertain it.
Cordially,
[[That seems so far-fetched and unnecessary to whatever Jesus was illustrating that I cannot presently manage enough suspension of disbelief to entertain it. ]]
Even when the events spoken of are contrary to biblical truths? You must suspend belief In order to explain a soul has lips and a tongue in need of relief, that souls in hell are able to talk to souls In heaven, that Abraham would call a gentile in hell son, that a gentile soul in hell would call Abraham father, you would have to suspend belief In order to believe a man in torments would be able to speak at all
[[I would disagree with you that the passage is based on a superstitious Babylonian myth, ]]
I would encourage you to look into this passage more thoroughly- The Pharisees DID teach the myth of abrahams’ bosom - this isn’t in dispute- They taught that there was a gulf that could be crossed,
Just one more thing I want to point out- A parable is nothing more than a metaphor- or rather ‘one thing said, another thing meant’- That’s it- there are no rules for using metaphors- And while Jesus usually used ‘real things’ as his metaphor examples, that does not bar Him from using a myth-
I misspoke in previous post about the rich man being gentile- it was Lazarus who was the gentile- representing gentiles as a whole now being accepted into heaven- The rich man being representative of The ‘self righteous’ Jews who’s hearts were hardened yet who appeared spiritual-
The purple fine cloth was symbolic of both royalty and priests - an the whole point of the parable is not to confirm or deny the myth- but to the lie to the teachings of the myth by the Pharisees, for the purpose of pointing out two things, that the Pharisees were teaching lies, and that unsaved Jews would not see the kingdom of Heaven, while gentiles would- something that would have made the Pharisees furious no doubt-
The Pharisees were teaching the myth of Abraham’s bosom, and teaching that there could be mercy in hell, and that people could be ‘prayed out of hell”, and that they could cross to the other side, and that is clearly not truth- Christ- Using their own parable against them, made it clear that once one is in hell, there will be no getting out, and there will be no mercy given- Christ simply by way of metaphor, informed them that their major points were wrong- lies-
Nowhere else In the bible does it state that men go to paradise or sheol in bodily and spiritual form as taught by the myth the Pharisees were peddling- The myth included bodily parts, lips, eyes, tongue- lazarus’ finger- But we know from scriptures that we will be reunited with our bodies, and at that point hey will be made incorruptible-