Really? Since the Lord only used real and known physical realities in parables to represent spiritual realities, then it is apparent that He held that analogies have to use them, not science fiction, for which you have zero precedent.
And if that which represents spiritual realities is fiction, then why believe the spiritual one is real?
When Jesus said “Destroy this temple and it will be raised back in 3 days’ Was He not ‘telling a whopper’ as you contend?
Not at all, as here again the Lord was using a known physical realities in parables to represent a spiritual realities. Why you could see the fallacy of your argument is the question.
Even Jesus’ own disciples were often confused by his figurative speech and parables. For example on another occasion he told his disciples to “be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees ...
True, but only as to what the physical reality represented, not because He presented something that did not exist at all. If the Lord said, beware of the leaven of the Romulans, then that would be analogous to the Lord speaking of a postmortem man conscious and in torments when such did not exist.
http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/p_lazarus.htm (Note I do not agree with this site’s idea of ‘soul sleep’,
Close enough. You just deny the rich man suffering postmortem torment because their bodies are in the grave, like they do, and have the Lord teaching science fiction in order to teach a spiritual reality. Sound just like what a cult would teach.
[[Another source showing what Jews of Jesus’ day believed is a book called 4 Maccabees, which was probably written by Jews in Egypt about a generation after Christ. In this work of fiction Abraham, Isaac and Jacob receive and welcome Jewish martyrs into the world of the dead:
And Jude quoted a true part of the book of Enoch, showing that coming from a source that is not wholly inspired does not make it fiction. Paul even quote a pagan prophet.
This parable was to Jews- who would have understood Jesus was using a common cultural superstition in His Parable- something THEY could understand, but something that was not biblical-
Nonsense. The sinless Christ would never teach of a place and experience that nowhere existed, esp. as serious as the afterlife, and to use such a fairy tale as representing a spiritual reality impugns the credibility of the latter!
The rest of your attempt to rationalize this is also pathetic
Jesus’ parable was spoken TO these same Pharisees- u
And to His disciples. (Lk. 16:1, 17:1)
Note, that Jesus was NOT accommodating their myths- He was tearing their Myths apart- pointing out to them that everything they taught was NOT biblical
That is absurd. If that was the case then the Lord would have taught something like that the rich man simply was buried and was tormented, or (if you disallow that) how he later faced the final judgment, But instead, what your examples show is that the Lord corrected false aspects by providing the correct reality, of a man who died but was in torments, in contrast with the elect...
But Jesus again contradicts the myths, and has Abraham refusing to raise Lazarus:
Consider the lunacy: Jesus is correcting myths by teaching a modified myth! Are you for real?!
It is not surprising that you invoke a cult.
This exchange is best to be over. May God have mercy on you.
Daniel, your whoel premise is that because Christ only used ‘real events’ in other parables or analogies, that that means He is prevented from using soemthign that isn’t real to make a point-
I’ve explained several tiems why it was important for Him to use the MYTH of Abraham’s bosom to drive the p oint home to the heretics who taught a false religion, and hwo wre leading people astray-
[[Nonsense. The sinless Christ would never teach of a place and experience that nowhere existed,]]
Sure he would- to those who needed to see that their religion and teachings were false- Nothing about the Pharisees teachings was true- once Again, Christ used their own myth to show how WRONG they were about Heaven and hell-
[[You have Christ affirming a myth.]]
Christ is NOT affirming a myth- No more so than Christ is telling everyone He is a literal vine when he gave the parable of a vine and branches- Is it a ‘reality’ as you put it that Christ is a vine? Of course not- it’s simply an allegorical message to ILLUSTRATE A POINT- Noone in their rightm ind believes the ‘absudity’ as you put it that Christ is a literal vine
IF Christ is able to use NON LITERAL allegories to illustrate a point- then I think He’s able to use non literal myths to drive the point home that the Pharisees were WRONG
[[for which you have zero precedent.]]
Sorry, but the parable of the rich man IS the precedent for the reasons already explained
[[And Jude quoted a true part of the book of Enoch, showing that coming from a source that is not wholly inspired does not make it fiction. Paul even quote a pagan prophet. ]]
You again missed the point- The book describes the myth
There is no ‘Abraham’s bosom’- So the fact that Christ mentions it at all proves He’s doing so only to drive home a point to the Pharisees- As does the FACT that the man in sheol wanted his tongue and lips cooled- Obviously then, since Christ DID use this analogy for a specific purpose already explained, He DID teach by setting a precedent-
There was no ‘holding place’ for those who were bound for heaven, nor one for hell- There is no soul sleep-
There are so many things wrong with the whole parable according to the bible that it MUST be nothing more than a parable using a MYTH to drive a point home
[[That is absurd. If that was the case then the Lord would have taught something like that the rich man simply was buried and was tormented,]]
Now we’re thinking for Christ are we? The facts speak for themselves- There is too much wrong with the parable to be taken as a literal event that took place- or reference to a literal event-
Most bible commentators and theologians conclude that the parable can’t be true because it flies In the face of the rest of the bible’s teachings- Yet some persist in declaring it must be true- despite the evidence to the contrary, and despite the clear fact that the MYTH of Abraham’s bosom, purgatory and paradise is a distinctly Babylonian myth, and NOT a biblical truth
But whatever, like I said- you need to narrow down your points- I’m not sitting here for hours answering a boatload of points-
You main premise seems to be that because Christ never used ‘non-real’ analogies before, He is prevented from ever doing so- I’d like to see a verse that explains this rule-
Your next premise seems to be that He couldn’t possibly use ‘science fiction’ to convince anyone because doing so would be ‘fraud’
Not sure how you come to that conclusion- especially in light of the FACT that He clearly used a false teaching by the Pharisees to show them how wrong their false teaching really is