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To: Conscience of a Conservative
If the parents are illegals and NOT subject to the jurisdiction of the US then how could their dependent baby be? The problem with this argument is that illegals ARE subject to the jurisdiction of the US. If an illegal commits a crime in the US, then US prosecutors (state or federal) may prosecute the illegal in US courts (again, state or federal), and the illegal may be convicted of the crime and sentenced to imprisonment in (state or federal) prison.

I think the point though is that that illegals choose NOT to subject themselves to the jurisdiction of the US. Whether or not they can be prosecuted for crimes is irrelevant. They are purposely AVOIDING being under the jurisdiction of the United States.

It's intent. Someone on a visa for example chooses to subject themselves to the jurisdiction. In other words, they are taking a legal route to be here and fully accepting the jurisdiction of the United States over them and have legally made that choice.

108 posted on 08/19/2015 11:35:12 AM PDT by DouglasKC (I'm pro-choice when it comes to lion killing....)
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To: DouglasKC

Define jurisdiction for purposes of citizenship and presto, issue resolved.

Also o’blowhard forgot the FACT custody follows parents not child. The child’s citizenship does not matter. Deport the parents and the child goes with the parents.


109 posted on 08/19/2015 11:38:07 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: DouglasKC
It's intent. Someone on a visa for example chooses to subject themselves to the jurisdiction. In other words, they are taking a legal route to be here and fully accepting the jurisdiction of the United States over them and have legally made that choice.

But whether or not you are subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. does not depend on whether one chooses to be subject to jurisdiction. To use the example of a diplomat again, a diplomat may choose to subject himself to the jurisdiction of the U.S. (if arrested, the diplomat can choose not to assert diplomatic immunity, though most obviously do not make that choice). But, even if the diplomat chooses to subject himself to U.S. jurisdiction, that does not mean that a child of the diplomat is a U.S. citizen.

Choice is irrelevant - whether or not someone is subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. is a function of law, not that person's choices.

112 posted on 08/19/2015 11:53:10 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: DouglasKC

I don’t think that’s how it works, but I’m in no way a lawyer or legal scholar.

That’s what’s confusing to me about this. Perhaps the phrase had a clear and specific meaning when the amendment was written, which should take precedence in a SCOTUS case?

I just ... when I read the amendment, I have a really tough time understanding how it can be read any other way than birthright citizenship for everyone.


123 posted on 08/21/2015 12:31:00 AM PDT by Taipei
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