My promised article concerning McCain and the USS Forrestal(CV-59) Fire

I will not use Wikipedia as some people have BUTTHURT with Wiki. This is what is will use: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/cv-59/59f-0729.htm

I posted either on this thread or another about how shipboard fires were handled by enlisted rather than officers. I just did a look up. Five officers died that day including CMDR White whose plane was hit & the rest were enlisted. http://www.virtualwall.org/units/forrestal.htm The ORANSKY fire was about 75% officers but a very different cause and type of fire. I suspect their location when explosion hit had a lot to do with a high count. A fireball went through Officers Country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Oriskany_fire. If a person reads about the Enterprise fire they might see what looks to me like events got combined and twisted erroneously into the Forestall tragedy as both involved Zuni’s.

That’s pretty funny...came back aboard as an inspector! I am sure he knew ALL the things to look at that could have been bad, OTOH, if he was in charge and he was good at his job...you were in the habit of keeping those “pet” issues of his in tip-top shape, so those would probably be the first place he would look...

Funny. Some people are suited for certain jobs, and he didn’t sound like direct supervision was a good thing for him. Brought out the worst in him. But being an inspector...that sounds lie it suited him just fine!

"...I posted either on this thread or another about how shipboard fires were handled by enlisted rather than officers..."

True the way I remember it...Damage control parties were all enlisted IIRC.

The Oriskany fire was awful. If there was ever an object lesson in just how mundane shipboard life can go from mundane to hair-raising, that would be it. One can easily imagine the young guy throwing the flare back into the compartment in panic. Probably seemed like a reasonable thing to do in the moment.

Funny, I know a lot about the Forrestal and Oriskany fires, but for some reason, I have never got around to learning much about the Enterprise fire. I can see how some would conflate the Forrestal and Enterprise fires.

The Oriskany fire had the potential to be far worse and the fire from hell. No way to stop magnesium on a ship from burning but to toss the helo's over or other source of magnesium over the side.

I think Enterprise is where the so called wet start rumors came from that and dropping a bomb. IIRC Forestall did have possibly one other contributing factor which was believed to be aged bombs that cooked off once the fire began. Some accounts mention it some don't. It sounded more like the plane explosions triggered them.

The two officers I mentioned on my ship both were engineering officers but not the CHENG as he was a very calm man. Back in the day went carriers went to sea in war or peace it was a given fact of carrier life that men died. Only one in my 4 years was from natural causes a chief died in the rack. One jumped overboard entering the channel coming back to port, several were pilots in crashes, one was a Chalker who bought it during a Tomcat re-spot by getting ran over, one dove into the dry dock from island level. My cousins son was in Gulf War One deployed squadron on the Washington I think. They didn't loose anybody. I was amazed.

I think some also have misconception on how ship fires are handled. You gear up first and it takes two hose teams per fire due to intense heat. Number One Hose Team is the working nozzle fighting the fire. It takes a minimum of three good size men to man each hose. Number Two Hose Team Nozzleman {One On Two} has a goose neck positioned over "One on One" {the main nozzlemans} shoulders. The goose-neck can also be used as a last resort to attempt to put out a deep fryer or grease fire but you gotta know exactly how to do it and even then it's luck. In Fire Fighting School the instructors hated demonstrating how to put that one out. They did it but it was so dangerous to do we weren't allowed to attempt it. They used a long pole too pour a cup of water on the fire. The fire would explode and spread out over a wide area. Below decks on ship sure death.

Also when a fire is detected especially in a closed compartment you just don't play John Wayne and open it. You open the hatch and stick the goose-neck in to cool the entrance for entry because the sudden rush of oxygen hitting the fire and the resulting flash when the hatch opens will kill you if you don't. Again the goose-neck nozzle has it's purpose. Ship Fires are fought from a squatted position and geared up. Stand up and you'll likely die. With no oxygen source such as Scott Air Packs OBA's back in the day were used. A self contained oxygen generator that had a nasty quirk of failing. The fumes could kill ya as quick as the fire.

If memory serves, the pilot responsible for that incident was turned over to the Italians for trial, and was imprisoned as a result.
I don't think McCain's incident was quite as serious, but it still would have ended an ordinary naval airman's career.

The unwritten subtext being that, had not McCain's dad and Grandfather been admirals (?) his Navy airman career would have ended right there.

He would not have flown again.
He would not have been shot down and captured.
He would not have been lionized as a POW hero
He probably would never have run for Federal office as a hero, or any other way.

... and we would not be having this conversation.

Yeah...I don’t know anything about that, though like you, I have heard about it.

I don’t think he was hurt badly enough to warrant evac by helo on a ship that badly damaged.

I don’t think having outstanding leave approved would be any reason either (I heard something about that)

I could see if he had outstanding leave approved already, and the NYT reporter was being flown off specifically to file his report (something I could see the USN doing, as they specifically schedule helo time to bring someone like a reporter ON a ship, I am pretty sure) and McCain asked his CO if he could depart on the helo, and the CO saying “Sure, if they have room, I have no objection”.

That said, it may have merely been a true case of RHIP, and McCain had that because of his father and grandfather. Doesn’t look good in that case, but not illegal or anything like that.

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