Posted on 07/22/2015 8:09:54 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg
Local law enforcement truism ... we deal with 10% of the population 90% of the time.
This cop may have arrested her previously or was aware of her record.
I understand that he is on desk duty, and I further understand that what specific policy he violated was not stated.
When they put you on desk duty for violating policy, aren’t they supposed to tell you what policy you violated?
He knows what policy he violated. He also knows he is going to trying to explain it to a jury soon. This guy is in big trouble thanks to films.
A woman has the right to refuse to get out of her car until she can check with the PD to be sure she is not being accosted by criminals in this Obama world.
DPS has already stated that the glitches are due to the upload and not the camera quality. They also stated the issue will be fixed.
I’m not assuming anything. You are! I’m waiting for the facts, but what I do know is that he lawfully ordered her to put out the cigarette and lawfully ordered her out of the car. Both of which she refused. She was in violation of the law regardless.
I didn’t say he did smell drugs. Please read my posts more carefully next time. I said he MAY have smelled them. He MAY have just disliked her smoking in his face, or he MAY have feared she would burn him, or he MAY have just been a jerk. Either way, the reason doesn’t matter because he gave her a lawful order to put it out, which was within his statutory authority, and she refused.
In TX, a cop can arrest you for a license plate lamp being out. It is bad policy to do it and most departments frown on it, but it is still legal to do. Please remember the difference between legal/illegal and within/against policy.
Maybe this is too confusing to you, so let me give you the 1965 U.S. Supreme Court case of Shuttlesworth vs. The City of Birmingham. (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/382/87/case.html)
In this case, a man was arrested for loitering and for disobeying a lawful order by a police officer. His conviction was overturned on both charges. On the issue of "disobeying a lawful order" the court found:
We find the petitioner's conviction under the second count of the complaint, for violation of § 1231 of the General City Code, to be constitutionally invalid for a completely distinct reason. That ordinance makes it a criminal offense for any person "to refuse or fail to comply with any lawful order, signal or direction of a police officer." Like the provisions of § 1142 discussed above, the literal terms of this ordinance are so broad as to evoke constitutional doubts of the utmost gravity.
What this Supreme Court decision did was create a need for States, counties and cities to clearly define what lawful orders are.
Just like the Constitution spells out what the Federal Government has the authority to do, so State, county and city laws and ordinances spell out what authority police officers have. They do not have the authority to tell someone to put out a cigarette.
It's not there.
“Refusing to follow a lawful order is a criminal offense in TX regardless of the lawful order. Putting out a cigarette is a lawful order and done for officer safety and investigative purposes. Her smoking wasn’t the issue. Her refusing to follow the lawful order of putting the cigarette out was the issue.”
Is being an A$$hole cop also “legal” in Texas? So I guess if the cop commands you to stop breathing in his presence, that’s also to be considered “a lawful order?” Stop all this obfuscation BS, the lot of them that were involved in this woman’s death are being investigated for MURDER! And the cop’s boss has already stated that he acted inappropriately and has taken him off of patrol duty. You Texans sure do “circle the wagons” to protect the crap you have enforcing your laws! Do these people really deserve your protection?
He violated the courtesy policy by losing his calm. It is not an indictable offense since it isn’t illegal; just against policy. He will be reprimanded and possibly fired for it, but a jury will not be involved. Just fyi...
Did you hurt your arm trying to reach that far?
Was she in her vehicle or a no smoking area?
If telling her to put a cigarette is a lawful order...then telling her to light one up would be too ...right?
No, he didn’t. A police officer cannot simply order you out of your vehicle. They must have a reason to do so. And when you ask for the reason, they must tell you.
You misread the case. The case is talking about the broadness of a CITY ORDINANCE not state law. Again, there is a big difference.
You must not live in TX, because in TX, a cop can order you to put out a cigarette. It is common practice and upheld in court.
Good post that, I think, sums up this whole mess perfectly.
And you keep saying he has the right to order you to put out a ciggy when you are in your own car but I have yet to see you provide proof. Or did I miss that?
Agreed.
You’re a moron then and have no clue about policing in TX. The trooper does NOT have access to the jail cells in any county jail so there is NO way he could have killed her.
Yes, being a rude cop is legal, although not a best practice. Ordering someone to stop breathing is NOT a lawful order because it causes harm or violated civil rights. Ordering someone to put out a cigarette is a lawful order.
Agree. I am nearly always on the side of the police because we have an officer in our family. But this case smells to high heaven and the TX Rangers seem to agree. As I said earlier we have had a police impersonator locally and he is really sharp. I have told my daughters to use their cell phones and call 911 to ask identification of any police officer that tells them to get out of their car. There is no reason a policeman cannot wait for that.
It is obvious the police officer was just as out of control as the woman. And he is supposed to be trained to handle these situations without making it worse. It is tragic she is dead.
Technically, ordering to light up could be a lawful order, but doubtful because it could cause harm to the person. Ordering the cigarette out causes no harm at all and doesn’t violate any rights so it is a lawful order.
That isn’t stretching. I’m telling you what is within a cop’s authority.
He violated the courtesy policy by losing his calm. It is not an indictable offense since it isn’t illegal; just against policy. He will be reprimanded and possibly fired for it, but a jury will not be involved. Just fyi...
We will see. Lots of women here in North TX are not happy about what they have seen on these films. And that includes me and many other Whites.
The glitches are a concern, but I’m waiting to see if they’re fixed as DPS has promised. It is silly and premature to assume a conspiracy theory already, which is what most of y’all are doing.
Actually, a cop can order you out of your car for any reason once you are legally detain (i.e. traffic stop). The cop must be able to verbalize why he did it, but it is legal. The cop must say why you were detained, but doesn’t have to say why you must exit the vehicle.
And you keep saying he has the right to order you to put out a ciggy when you are in your own car but I have yet to see you provide proof. Or did I miss that?
I agree that he should have kept his calm and probably needs additional training, but once he provided his credentials to her and she had the opportunity to call 911 to verify the cop, she still had to comply with the lawful order.
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