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Second World War tank and anti-aircraft gun found hidden in basement of villa in Germany
The Telegraph ^ | 07-03-2015 | Melanie Hall

Posted on 07/03/2015 11:17:02 AM PDT by NRx

German soldiers grappled for nine hours with an unusual task: trying to remove a Second World War tank found in the cellar of a villa.

Almost 20 soldiers struggled to remove the tank from a villa on Thursday in a wealthy suburb of Kiel in northern Germany, after police searching the property discovered the tank, a torpedo, an anti-aircraft gun and other weapons in the cellar on Wednesday.

Police raided the home in the town of Heikendorf under instructions from prosecutors, who suspected that the villa's 78-year-old owner held the weaponry illegally under a law controlling the possession of instruments of war.

The army was called in to try to remove the 1943-vintage Panther tank, and struggled for nine hours to tow it out using two modern recovery tanks designed to haul damaged battle tanks off the field.

The soldiers ended up having to build their own wooden ramp in order to free to tank.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1943; germany; heikendorf; panther; panthertank; worldwareleven; ww2; wwii
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To: GreyFriar
Saw a tank show on the Canadians in Italy. The Germans mounted V turrets on subterranean concrete support bunkers.

Low profile, four of them stopped a platoon of Shermans, and the advance in that sector, cold.

(Naturally, you have to wonder why artillery or air support wasn't called in.)

41 posted on 07/03/2015 12:32:03 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Charles Martel

Wonder how the owner got it out to drive around in snow.


42 posted on 07/03/2015 12:34:05 PM PDT by mcshot (Under Construction)
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To: CitizenUSA

Great tank when working, but too unreliable. You could make a stronger argument for the T34/85.


43 posted on 07/03/2015 12:36:25 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: kvanbrunt2

How did he get it out? It used to have tracks?


44 posted on 07/03/2015 12:36:59 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: NRx

He was tired of everyone walking on his lawn.


45 posted on 07/03/2015 12:37:23 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: GreyFriar; Kartographer

A good tank might come in more handy than gold when SHTF


46 posted on 07/03/2015 12:40:01 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: abb

Yep. Probably the most versatile and lethal large caliber gun ever created. And the tank, albeit sans treads, looks to be in absolute pristine condition. I’ll bet curators at the Imperial War Museum in Britain are drooling.


47 posted on 07/03/2015 12:40:40 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: NRx

Here in Indy, we used to have the Ropkey Armor Museum. Although he had more than just armor when it was located off 79th St. On the west side just past I-465.

It’s now located in Crawforsville, IN.


48 posted on 07/03/2015 12:44:25 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: SunkenCiv

Your memory serves incorrectly. Some armored cars were fitted with steel wheels to patrol railroads, but not tanks. The Russians had a tank that could run (much faster) without tracks, actually designed by an American, but it was too lightly armored to be much use against another tank.


49 posted on 07/03/2015 12:46:11 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: SunkenCiv
the drive sprocket is powered. without tank treads on the vehicle, it would just spin and there would be no movement. you need tracks/treads to cause movement. just like on a bulldozer.

what the Germans did have were narrower transport tracks for their larger vehicles (e.g., Tiger I and Tiger II) so that they could fit on standard rail cars without overhanging the sides and pass through tunnels, by other trains, and such.

they would install these tracks before loading the vehicles onto the rail cars, and at the destination, switch back.

here's a pic with a Tiger I fitted with transport tracks, with the wider combat tracks stowed underneath.


50 posted on 07/03/2015 12:51:49 PM PDT by TangibleDisgust (The Parmesan doesn't go like that.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Wow. It’s in nearly pristine condition.

The authorities will probably tow it to a salvage yard and let it rust out.

51 posted on 07/03/2015 12:53:28 PM PDT by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason and rule of law. Prepare!)
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To: NRx
I vas vondering about ze torpedo. Warum?

Und zen I remember U-995 Museum in Kiel. Ambitious old man perhaps.

52 posted on 07/03/2015 12:56:09 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: katana

that Panther that was confiscated is a well know post-war manufacture from various spare parts and such. it was sold to this collector in the 70’s IIRC. it’s not a new find. it was known about. there aren’t many real Panthers left and they are all worth in excess of $1M.

for those interested, here’s a listing (PDF) of surviving examples with photos and locations. the one from this article is shown on page 10 i believe.

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Panthers.pdf


53 posted on 07/03/2015 12:59:33 PM PDT by TangibleDisgust (The Parmesan doesn't go like that.)
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To: GreyFriar

Some sites reference different tracks for transportation and combat.

Here is picture of overlapped and interweaved road wheels. would not have power but might get the tank to roll?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_track#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-635-3965-28,_Panzerfabrik_in_Deutschland.jpg


54 posted on 07/03/2015 1:00:08 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: real saxophonist
he has a postwar British self-propelled gun "Abbott" that i know of.

not strictly a tank because of its mission (i.e. it would do lousy in tank-to-tank combat), but more properly called an SPG or self-propelled field artillery.

http://www.bigissue.com/features/interviews/5105/new-order-drummer-stephen-morris-i-keep-a-tank-in-my-shed

here's what they look like:


55 posted on 07/03/2015 1:05:05 PM PDT by TangibleDisgust (The Parmesan doesn't go like that.)
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To: headstamp 2

no Panthers were in combat in North Africa. those were PzKpfw III’s, IV’s, and Tigers.

however, on western front battlefields, the exchange rate was roughly 5 Shermans to 1 Panther. you can think of it this way... for every Panther the allies knocked out, we lost 5 Shermans in the process.


56 posted on 07/03/2015 1:07:24 PM PDT by TangibleDisgust (The Parmesan doesn't go like that.)
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To: Calvin Locke

Both of the latter would have a hard time with that situation as well. A decent tank will withstand HE reasonably well, short of a direct hit to the thinner top armor, and direct air support for that sort of thing was fairly difficult in that era.


57 posted on 07/03/2015 1:13:06 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: NRx

All I can say is I want this guys basement. Talk about room! You have enough room to store a Tiger Panzer in the basement?! Awesome.


58 posted on 07/03/2015 1:18:56 PM PDT by Flick Lives (“One should not attend even the end of the world without a good breakfast.” -- Heinlein "Friday")
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To: Calvin Locke
those are called Panzerkuppel or Panzerturm. generally obsolete or knocked out tanks had their turrets removed for use as fixed fortifications if there was a benefit. guarding airfields or for use on the Siegfried line. these were simply delaying measures. since the fortifications couldn't move, it was only a matter of time until they'd be knocked out by artillery or tanks or anti-tunk guns. you could also bypass them and deal with them later. there are still a handful of these around that have been left as WWII monuments.

sometimes late in the war, during city defenses, a tank would be dug in and operate as a panzerturm. either due to tank damage, or lack of fuel, or desperateness of the situation.

59 posted on 07/03/2015 1:27:03 PM PDT by TangibleDisgust (The Parmesan doesn't go like that.)
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To: NRx

Now, if it had had a Dixie flag on it, it would be hazardous waste. BTW, it did not appear to have military markings or treads.

The Collins Foundation in Stow, MA, has more Nazi era German ordnance than that, though some of the neighbors would love to shut them down.


60 posted on 07/03/2015 1:31:46 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Men need a reason to shop. Women need a place.)
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